View Poll Results: Which do you prefer:

Voters
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  • Income tax - no changes in the status quo

    39 19.80%
  • Flat tax - Everyone pays the same %

    67 34.01%
  • National sales tax - don't spend, you don't pay taxes

    47 23.86%
  • No tax - Unconstitutional - rely on private donations

    10 5.08%
  • Other - explain

    21 10.66%
  • Cookies!

    13 6.60%
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Thread: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

  1. #391
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    It's not really a tax break for poor people, because rich people can do the same, but they don't want to.

    However, I sympathize with many poor people who struggle to keep their finances in order. I want to make sure that it is possible to live very cheap if you have trouble with the finances.

    I'd rather the constraint of the Fourteenth Amendment, the every person in the United States be granted equal protection under the law be respected and the process of punishing the successful by over taxing them be ceased.

    If poor people had to pay their fair share for all the programs they're now getting for free, there would be fewer unconstitutional scams holding the nation down.

  2. #392
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    Yeah, keep the poor poor. Why should they get away without paying taxes?
    Exactly.

    They're personal failures aren't any excuse to relieve them of their duties to the nation.

    They're consuming resources, they should pay for them.

  3. #393
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Exactly.

    They're personal failures aren't any excuse to relieve them of their duties to the nation.

    They're consuming resources, they should pay for them.
    LOL. i really hope this is sarcasm.
    Don't tread on me= Don't tread on my corporate masters

  4. #394
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I addressed this already in post #139 -

    "In the late 1800's and early 1900's there was a group of super wealthy American capitalist known as the Robber Barons. Our elected leaders realized that if they did not pass some major legislation the Robber Barons would eventually own every inch of land in America and our founding fathers vision of an egalitarian democratic republic would be destroyed, and our Constitution would be worthless. So in 1913 they passed the sixteenth amendment to the Constitution and a highly progressive tax system."
    History Of America's Highly Progressive Tax System
    That's interesting.

    The phrase "Robber Baron" refers to economic practices in Medieval Europe.

    Explain how private capitalists have the power to rob people like that?

    Oh! You people are just using hyperbole to propagandize your positions, is all. You don't actually understand your issues, you're just told to use certain phrases because those phrases have a measured impact and negate the need for thoughtful intelligent discourse.

    As I've already stated, since the word "Progressive" and the "Progressive Movement" were propagandistic euphemisms for the American socialist movements, and since in no ways can "progress" be construed as moving backwards towards a resumption of feudalism, then there's nothing at all progressive about a so-called Progressive movement or a Progressive tax.

    When you all want to discuss things in english, so that you call a socialist the damn dirty dog socialist, instead of these cutesy little lying euphemisms you love so much because not even you can claim socialism is good, get back to me.

  5. #395
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    LOL. i really hope this is sarcasm.
    too bad.

    it's not.

    TANSTAAFL

  6. #396
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The Supreme Court would make the call on those charges as to whether they are Constitutional or not.
    They used to.

    Until FDR threatened to pack the courts with socialists.

    Since then the USSC hasn't been doing it's job.

    You're absolutely right.

    Under Article I, Section 8, they're not allowed.

    Can you explain why you decided that your brain would be used best as a suppository for other people's thoughts instead of as an organ for original thought? Can you explain why, when you yourself admit that something is illegal, you reverse yourself because some unelected body disagrees with you? Have you no spine?

    Oh! You must be one of those people that agree with all the USSC's decisions, including the decision that allows the state to seize a family's private residence and sell it to a private commercial developer.

    Being neither ignorant nor stupid, I'm able to read the Constitution myself and it's perfectly plain that what I say is unconstitutional is in fact a violation. Also, you could try looking up what Thomas Jefferson had to say about the Constitutionality of federal education spending. A firm advocate of public education, he confessed that the deed was unconstitutional and he requested an amendment allowing. The congress agreed it was unconstituitonal and no amendment was forth coming. Ergo, it's still unconstitutional.
    Last edited by Scarecrow Akhbar; 01-14-10 at 08:59 PM.

  7. #397
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    That's interesting.

    The phrase "Robber Baron" refers to economic practices in Medieval Europe.
    The term was also used to describe practices in the US in the late 1800's and the early 1900's ~

    "Robber Barons, a term used in the late 1800s and early 1900s to describe a businessman who made an enormous amount of money, today we would call them billionaires. It was not really the fact they made an extreme amount of wealth, it was more the way they made it. In all the cases the acquiring of wealth was done in what was considered a ruthless manor and unscrupulous ways. A robber baron was more interested in acquiring wealth than the safety of his employees, the amount of work hours performed in a week, or the amount of wage being paid for a days work."
    Robber Barons essays

    "The era of Big Business began when entrepreneurs in search of profits consolidated their businesses into massive corporations, which were so large that they could force out competition and gain control of a market. Control of a market allowed a corporation to set prices for a product at whatever level it wanted. These corporations, and the businessmen who ran them, became exceedingly wealthy and powerful, often at the expense of many poor workers. Some of the most powerful corporations were John D. Rockefeller’s Standard Oil Company, Andrew Carnegie’s Carnegie Steel, Cornelius Vanderbilt’s New York Central Railroad System, and J.P. Morgan’s banking house. These corporations dominated almost all aspects of their respective industries: by 1879, for example, Rockefeller controlled 90 percent of the country’s oil refining capacity. Much of the public saw the leaders of big business as “robber barons” who exploited workers in order to amass vast fortunes."
    SparkNotes: SAT Subject Test: U.S. History: Big Business in the Industrial Age
    Last edited by Catawba; 01-14-10 at 09:56 PM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  8. #398
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    [quote=Scarecrow Akhbar;1058486751]
    Can you explain why, when you yourself admit that something is illegal, you reverse yourself because some unelected body disagrees with you?
    What did I admit was illegal? You've already shown you interpret things from your own unique perspective, so don't forget to include my quote to back up your claim.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #399
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Exactly, that is why a consumption tax makes no sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "Rich Buying Again, But Middle Class Still Hurting"

    "The poor have no assets to protect them against inflation.

    The middle class have some assets to protect them against inflation.

    The rich have most of their assets protected against inflation.
    That is no ones fault but the people who do not protect themselves.

    I defy that statement that "the poor have no assets to protect them against inflation."

    I have multiple investments in my 401k, individual stocks, notes and foreign currency.
    All I had to do was read about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Those with Government contracts are protected against inflation because they receive the newly created money through government contracts. This is value indirectly stolen from the poor and middle class and given to the rich.

    Consider this: you are poor and you would like to save up cash for a large purchase. As you save money, you reach a point when the cash you have in savings loses value faster than the rate at which you can save.

    Each year new money is created out of nothing and put into existence. This is an indirect tax on the poor and middle class or anyone who is not hedged against inflation. This is an immoral, though lawful, system."
    How Does Inflation Hurt the Poor and Middle Class?
    I am poor and I hedge my surplus money against inflation now, I save money for large purchases now and I invest my money now.

    It's crazy to suggest that poor people can't do that when the barriers to entry are basically nonexistent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You mean like the hedge fund manager's that earn 400 times what a high school history teacher makes with no more education than the history teacher.
    Do you know how much pressure it is to manage millions to billions of dollars, that isn't your money?

    Formal education is not a definitive measure of success and income.


    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    That's why it is a MINIMUM wage. States where it is more expensive to live can set their wages higher.
    Your posted minimum wage is more than what I make and I live comfortably.
    It's unnecessary.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Yes, for me personally, it is morally wrong because the lower classes own less of the wealth. Putting that aside however, you will never gain public support for a tax system that will place a greater burden on the middle class.
    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    If you think you can sell a tax plan to the middle class that puts a greater tax burden on them because they deserve a higher tax burden, have at it!
    To me that moral philosophy says that,"I want to charge up my credit card but I want someone else to pay it."

    That is the primary reason I am against democracy, it has been proven that the majority will take as much as it can from the minority using the gun of the government.

    What happened to majority rule but not at the expense of the minority?
    That is what our republic was founded on.


    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    We have been over this already and I have shown that the top 20% own 80% of the wealth.
    Having more wealth does not mean you incur a greater debt to government.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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