View Poll Results: Which do you prefer:

Voters
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  • Income tax - no changes in the status quo

    39 19.80%
  • Flat tax - Everyone pays the same %

    67 34.01%
  • National sales tax - don't spend, you don't pay taxes

    47 23.86%
  • No tax - Unconstitutional - rely on private donations

    10 5.08%
  • Other - explain

    21 10.66%
  • Cookies!

    13 6.60%
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Thread: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

  1. #271
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It doesn't really do that at all, the rich will still pay the largest portion of all taxes.
    For me it isn't about the Fair Tax either, it's about everyone contributing.
    Everyone does contribute. The middle class just contributes more of their wealth than does the rich.

    I prefer a national sales tax or a flat tax.
    I don't care for the Fair Tax.
    The National sales tax and the fair tax are both essentially a flat tax.

    The middle and lower class have a lot that is generally left out of the equation and one could put the point forth that lower taxes and larger welfare benefits have encouraged poor people to stay poor.

    You feel the middle class is not paying their fair share?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  2. #272
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    He was talking about the tax rate being 20% and I interjected that this is all hypothetical and some want to cut spending to bring the total rate down to 5%.
    Oh, social engineering is what you are interested in? I thought you were opposed to that?

    Harry Guerrilla - People shouldn't be playing social engineering with taxes when the outcomes can be negative.
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  3. #273
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Everyone does contribute. The middle class just contributes more of their wealth than does the rich.
    Not entirely true, the tax rates for middle and lower income brackets are less than for higher earners.
    Not to mention a lot of the deductions and refundable credits they get.

    You'd be 100% right in comparison to the rich that earn all their money from long term capital gains though.


    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The National sales tax and the fair tax are both essentially a flat tax.
    One is on Income and the other is on consumption, the fair tax isn't good in my mind because there is still a lot of bureaucracy involved.

    An income tax and a consumption tax can have different effects.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You feel the middle class is not paying their fair share?
    Not entirely no, Medicare which is underfunded and the average recipient only pays in $1 for every $3 he or she receives.

    Not only that but their taxes have really just been used to fund greater tax rate cuts and the government has shifted to deficit spending to make up for the short fall.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 01-11-10 at 05:25 AM.
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  4. #274
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Oh, social engineering is what you are interested in? I thought you were opposed to that?
    The social engineering I'm referring to is doing stuff to and for people.

    Giving them things like no cost medical benefits, food stamps etc.
    It can change a person from productive to dependent.

    Requiring people to pay a modest tax for government upkeep does not fall into the same realm.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  5. #275
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Everyone does contribute. The middle class just contributes more of their wealth than does the rich.
    As has been shown to you a dozen times in this thread already, the rich pay a much higher percentage of their income in income tax than the middle or lower classes do.

    You know that you're wrong on this, so you keep on reverting to "wealth" as if that makes any sense. In the real world, because we cannot tax "wealth," we have to look at income.
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  6. #276
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Not entirely true, the tax rates for middle and lower income brackets are less than for higher earners.
    Not to mention a lot of the deductions and refundable credits they get.
    How does that equal to no contribution which was what your previous claim was?
    You'd be 100% right in comparison to the rich that earn all their money from long term capital gains though.

    One is on Income and the other is on consumption, the fair tax isn't good in my mind because there is still a lot of bureaucracy involved.
    The FairTax is a consumption tax in the form of a national retail sales tax on new goods and services.

    An income tax and a consumption tax can have different effects.
    Exactly, consumption tax would be less onerous on the wealthy and more onerous on the middle class.
    Not entirely no, Medicare which is underfunded....
    That is one of the things the health care reform will address by reducing Medicare/Medicaid waste and fraud.

    And don't forget about the taxpayers trillion dollar transfer of wealth to the rich during the bailouts.
    Last edited by Catawba; 01-11-10 at 04:56 PM.
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  7. #277
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    The social engineering I'm referring to is doing stuff to and for people.

    Giving them things like no cost medical benefits, food stamps etc.
    It can change a person from productive to dependent.
    Oh, we are speaking of the poor now rather than the middle class? OK, I suggest we start by paying a living wage to full time workers, so working people do not have to rely on the government for subsistence.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  8. #278
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Oh, we are speaking of the poor now rather than the middle class? OK, I suggest we start by paying a living wage to full time workers, so working people do not have to rely on the government for subsistence.
    That would be smart with 10%+ unemployment.

  9. #279
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    That would be smart with 10%+ unemployment.
    living wages are probably the smartest thing to do in a recession. its to make sure that people have the means to achieve a decent standard of living when the economic climate for traditionally lower strata jobs is poor.
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  10. #280
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Sure. Slap on another disincentive to hiring. That'll help unemployment.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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