View Poll Results: Which do you prefer:

Voters
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  • Income tax - no changes in the status quo

    39 19.80%
  • Flat tax - Everyone pays the same %

    67 34.01%
  • National sales tax - don't spend, you don't pay taxes

    47 23.86%
  • No tax - Unconstitutional - rely on private donations

    10 5.08%
  • Other - explain

    21 10.66%
  • Cookies!

    13 6.60%
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Thread: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

  1. #261
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post

    What right do I have to demand that you give me some of your property because I need it and you have more than I do? When I can do that, what freedom or rights do any of us have?
    Hate to tell you dudes (and it sounds bad) but 'Fair' doesn't matter!

    Reality/affordability does.

    The '5%" number you dudes were throwing around is NOT the Flat Tax rate.

    It would be more like 20% (since you're eliminating cap gains, Divs, estate etc)

    and people making 30K with a family of 4 CANNOT pay that, while people making $3 mil Can. with no sweat.
    In fact, An 18% Tax CUT for the latter! Necessarily Made up by YOU lackies. Duh!

    A Flat tax would lead to even more income/wealth Disparity than we have now.. Obviously.

    and it's ..er.. 'Fair' if you want to return to a Feudal society of Castles/Lords and serfs.
    Which because of lowered top marginal rates/reduced progressivity we're already doing.

    More people with servants and private Jets, and a smaller Middle Class.

    Can't wait for 'Flat tax'!
    (and the same little revolution/revelation we had 100 years ago to tax the Rockefellers and Mellons)
    -
    Last edited by mbig; 01-11-10 at 04:00 AM.
    I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.
    anon

  2. #262
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    Hate to tell you dudes (and it sounds bad) but 'Fair' doesn't matter!

    Reality/affordability does.

    The '5%" number you dudes were throwing around is NOT the Flat Tax rate.

    It would be more like 20+% (since you're eliminating cap gains, Divs, estate etc)
    That's why a cut in spending would be required.


    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    and people making 30K with a family of 4 CANNOT pay that, while people making $3 mil Can. with no sweat.
    How do you know this?

    By pure assumption?

    You do know that people making 30k a year already have more than 5% taken out for taxes?


    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    A Flat tax would lead to even more income/wealth Disparity than we have now.. Obviously.

    and it's ..er.. 'Fair' if you want to return to a Feudal society of Castles/Lords and serfs.
    Which because of lowered top marginal rates/reduced progressivity we're already doing.

    More people with servants and private Jets, and a smaller Middle Class.

    Can't wait for 'Flat tax'!
    -
    How can you predict this?

    Has any country ever implemented a flat tax and this happen?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  3. #263
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post

    That's why a cut in spending would be required.
    NONSENSE speak

    It still/clearly involves a Burden Shift DOWN the wealth/affordability ladder.

    We're assuming a Rev Neutral stance for now.
    Total Budget number a DIFFERENT issue.
    NOT logical debate.


    How do you know this?

    By pure assumption?

    You do know that people making 30k a year already have more than 5% taken out for taxes?
    What?
    I'm saying they can't afford a higher rate FLAT Tax of 20%.


    How can you predict this?

    Has any country ever implemented a flat tax and this happen?
    Well let me see.. we have a progressive system now.. and as it's gotten less progressive the Middle Class has shrunk and the rich have gotten Much richer...

    So lets play Really ignorant and lower the Riches rate from 38% to 20% and raise the Poorest from 0-10% to 20% and ...
    I think I can "Predict" what will happen with Simple Math.

    You know.. 'Math' The same way I can "Predict" 2 + 2 = 4.
    Duh

    JESUS what a gratuitous but EMPTY reply.
    Bye!
    -
    Last edited by mbig; 01-11-10 at 04:09 AM.
    I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.
    anon

  4. #264
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    I keep forgetting, why is it again we are supposed to feel sympathy for the those that own the majority of the wealth in the country???
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  5. #265
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    NONSENSE speak

    It still/clearly involves a Burden Shift DOWN the wealth/affordability ladder.

    We're assuming a Rev Neutral stance for now.

    Total Budget number a DIFFERENT issue.
    NOT logical debate.
    Sure it is, this is a thread devoted to hypothetical tax policy.
    Pretty logical to everyone else.


    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    What?
    I'm saying they can't afford a higher rate FLAT Tax of 20%.
    And many of them already have that deducted every single year.
    Have you ever done taxes for people in these income ranges?
    I have and I know for a fact that many of them have it deducted through out the whole year to have it delivered back at the end of the year in one solid check.

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    Well let me see.. we have a progressive system now.. and as it's gotten less progressive the Middle Class has shrunk and the rich have gotten Much richer...

    So lets play Really ignorant and lower the Riches rate from 38% to 20% and raise the Poorest from 0-10% to 20% and ...
    I think I can "Predict" what will happen with Simple Math.

    You know.. 'Math' The same way I can "Predict" 2 + 2 = 4.
    Duh

    JESUS what a gratruitous but EMPTY reply.
    -
    The rich will still pay more as a percentage than everyone else.

    You still haven't proven anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    A Flat tax would lead to even more income/wealth Disparity than we have now.. Obviously.

    and it's ..er.. 'Fair' if you want to return to a Feudal society of Castles/Lords and serfs.
    Which because of lowered top marginal rates/reduced progressivity we're already doing.

    More people with servants and private Jets, and a smaller Middle Class.
    Please prove this emotional rant.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  6. #266
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I keep forgetting, why is it again we are supposed to feel sympathy for the those that own the majority of the wealth in the country???
    It's not that at all.

    People shouldn't be playing social engineering with taxes when the outcomes can be negative.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  7. #267
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It's not that at all.

    People shouldn't be playing social engineering with taxes when the outcomes can be negative.
    You mean by trying to broaden the gap between the rich and the poor further by instituting a regressive tax such as the so called "Fair tax"?

    The middle class have already felt the negative effects of the tax cuts to the wealthy, why is it we would want to shift more of the tax burden to ourselves?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  8. #268
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Pretty logical to everyone else.
    And yet it has never been passed! And how did Huckabee fare in the election primary running on the fair tax platform?

    Where is this "everyone" for which you speak?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #269
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You mean by trying to broaden the gap between the rich and the poor further by instituting a regressive tax such as the so called "Fair tax"?
    It doesn't really do that at all, the rich will still pay the largest portion of all taxes.
    For me it isn't about the Fair Tax either, it's about everyone contributing.

    I prefer a national sales tax or a flat tax.
    I don't care for the Fair Tax.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The middle class have already felt the negative effects of the tax cuts to the wealthy, why is it we would want to shift more of the tax burden to ourselves?
    The middle and lower class have a lot that is generally left out of the equation and one could put the point forth that lower taxes and larger welfare benefits have encouraged poor people to stay poor.

    We all live in this country and all of us consume in this country, so all of us should contribute if we are to be citizens of this country.

    You can't take and never give.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 01-11-10 at 05:00 AM.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  10. #270
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    And yet it has never been passed! And how did Huckabee fare in the election primary running on the fair tax platform?

    Where is this "everyone" for which you speak?
    He was talking about the tax rate being 20% and I interjected that this is all hypothetical and some want to cut spending to bring the total rate down to 5%.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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