View Poll Results: Which do you prefer:

Voters
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  • Income tax - no changes in the status quo

    39 19.80%
  • Flat tax - Everyone pays the same %

    67 34.01%
  • National sales tax - don't spend, you don't pay taxes

    47 23.86%
  • No tax - Unconstitutional - rely on private donations

    10 5.08%
  • Other - explain

    21 10.66%
  • Cookies!

    13 6.60%
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Thread: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

  1. #241
    Stigmatized! End R Word! Kali's Avatar
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    What do rich people have against giving back to the system that made them so wealthy in the first place? Even after progressive income tax, the wealthy class still has more money than the lower ones, so shut the hell up and keep abusing it.....
    Greed. They could care less about all of us folks "under" them that has earned them their bread and butter. They look down on blue collar workers and one day? The REAL working people of this country can and will revolt and set things right.
    ~Following My Own Flow~

  2. #242
    I invented Human Nature
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    Greed. They could care less about all of us folks "under" them that has earned them their bread and butter. They look down on blue collar workers and one day? The REAL working people of this country can and will revolt and set things right.
    I agree. I'm offering rhetoric to the mentally stagnant.
    Don't tread on me= Don't tread on my corporate masters

  3. #243
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Regicollis View Post
    I fail to see the justice in a flat tax. If the same revenue has to be generated, introducing a flat tax would mean that the rich would get tax cuts while ordinary citizens and the poor would have to pay more. Furthermore a flat tax would mean that money used for luxuries would be taxed as hard as money used for necessities. That does not seem fair.

    The money you need for rent, utilities, food and fuel should not be taxed as heavily as those used for conspicuous consumption by the rich.

    "Flat tax" is basically class warfare by the rich who want all other people to bear more of the tax burden.
    ?

    If there were a nation wide flat tax of 5% - how exactly would that equal to the 'rich' getting tax cuts?
    Fool me once, shame on you.
    Fool me twice....shame on me.

  4. #244
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGirlNextDoor View Post
    ?

    If there were a nation wide flat tax of 5% - how exactly would that equal to the 'rich' getting tax cuts?
    5% of a large amount of money is not incredibly influential on a rich man's pocket book.

    5% of end's meat could be insanely dangerous. food? education? shelter?

    example: $130,000 x.05= 7,000. Leftover income: $123,000(cry me a ****ing river)
    example: $38,000 x.05= $1,900. Leftover income $36,100(this could be the difference between rent and no rent)

    Obviously though, its more intense than 5%, further supporting my theory that the flat tax is moronic and levies most of the societal financial burden on the poor, and lets the rich stay richer, and further cleavage the social hierarchy. Hey, I'd be ok with aspects of modern economics IF meritocracy and market principles existed vis-a-vis the 60's but its 2010.

    There's this sort of conservative mantra that " eliminating public mandated taxation would incline me to privately donate"

    bull****. Conservatism is a dying breed. A white rich old mans "hands off, its not my problem" brand.
    Last edited by Z3n; 01-10-10 at 03:37 AM.
    Don't tread on me= Don't tread on my corporate masters

  5. #245
    Advisor Regicollis's Avatar
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGirlNextDoor View Post
    ?

    If there were a nation wide flat tax of 5% - how exactly would that equal to the 'rich' getting tax cuts?
    If they were paying more taxes before, a 5 % flat tax would be a tax cut.

    I fail to see how a 5 % flat tax could bring about the same revenue as the current system.
    The poor complain; they always do
    But thatís just idle chatter
    Our system brings reward to all
    At least all those who matter.

  6. #246
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Regicollis View Post
    I fail to see the justice in a flat tax. If the same revenue has to be generated, introducing a flat tax would mean that the rich would get tax cuts while ordinary citizens and the poor would have to pay more. Furthermore a flat tax would mean that money used for luxuries would be taxed as hard as money used for necessities. That does not seem fair.

    The money you need for rent, utilities, food and fuel should not be taxed as heavily as those used for conspicuous consumption by the rich.

    "Flat tax" is basically class warfare by the rich who want all other people to bear more of the tax burden.
    I'm not a proponent of a flat tax, but you should at least make an effort not to willfully misrepresent their position. Pretty much every flat tax proposal that I'm familiar with includes exemptions for necessities like food, rent, health care, etc., so the tax would only be imposed on consumption beyond that baseline.

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    What do rich people have against giving back to the system that made them so wealthy in the first place? Even after progressive income tax, the wealthy class still has more money than the lower ones, so shut the hell up and keep abusing it.....
    There's a highly developed position on taxation if I ever heard one. "You're rich anyway so shut up and we'll just tax you as much as we want."

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    Greed. They could care less about all of us folks "under" them that has earned them their bread and butter. They look down on blue collar workers and one day? The REAL working people of this country can and will revolt and set things right.


    The odds of the "working people" revolting at any point in the near future are roughly zero.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  7. #247
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    Re: FairTaxFraud.com

    Exactly as I expected - a post full of ridicule and attitude that you're the only one that knows anything. But when you make errors such as those in your previous post:

    "Under Fairtax the Domestic Car company has to pay it's suppliers 30% More, and has to pay the Railroad Company which brings is Coal 30% More, The Coal company itself 30% more, the Railroad company has to pay 30% more when it buys new cars, or new rails, and so down the line.. taxing at every level and Increasing costs."

    claiming that the fair tax would tax the materials and services that businesses use to produce their products, it shows you don't have a clue about how the Fair Tax works. Therefore, there's no way you could actually have attempted to evaluate it for yourself.

    And there's no way that anyone should have reason to believe anything you say on the subject, since you clearly don't understand anything about what you're writing about.

    You just like to hear your own rhetoric, thus these laughably inaccurate posts.

  8. #248
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    What do rich people have against giving back to the system that made them so wealthy in the first place? Even after progressive income tax, the wealthy class still has more money than the lower ones, so shut the hell up and keep abusing it.....
    Actually most rich people don't have anything against giving back to the society in which they prospered. That's why you see so many of their names on gold plates on stuff in museums and hospital wings and science labs and new education buildings and libraries and scholarship funds and charitable and cultural, educational, and research foundations and sporting facilities etc etc etc. They give land for homeless shelters and orphanages and camps for kids, sponsor Little League and bowling teams, buy enormous quantities of mostly worthless merchandise to help out with fund raising projects, donate cars to drivers ed programs, and give huge quantities of cash to relief efforts and charitable causes. It makes them feel good to do it, because they can. Most poor people can't. Rich people also run the businesses that hire the poor people and give them a chance to make themselves rich.

    But the large majority of rich people, just like everybody else, acquired their wealth ethically, honorably, and honestly just like everybody else, and they have unalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness just like everybody else.

    The minute you adopt the attitude that Citizen A has more than Citizen B for whatever reason and therefore it is okay to forcibly take some of what Citizen A has and not Citizen B, you generate and promote corruption. When you adopt the attitude that all people are entitled to the fruit of their own labor without prejudice, you have a society that is truly free and open and inspirational to all who aspire to make their own lives better.

    A flat tax is the most fair, equitable, and least regressive way to raise revenues to fund the necessary responsibility and obligations of government. Because they have more, the rich will pay much more than the poor, but if everybody pays, everybody has a valid stake in the system and it is far more difficult to corrupt.
    Last edited by AlbqOwl; 01-10-10 at 07:31 PM.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  9. #249
    Stigmatized! End R Word! Kali's Avatar
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Right, trust me if we keep on the road we are on? There will be an uprise. People are sick and tired of the gov. and their lies.
    ~Following My Own Flow~

  10. #250
    Advisor Regicollis's Avatar
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Actually most rich people don't have anything against giving back to the society in which they prospered. That's why you see so many of their names on gold plates on stuff in museums and hospital wings and science labs and new education buildings and libraries and scholarship funds and charitable and cultural, educational, and research foundations and sporting facilities etc etc etc. They give land for homeless shelters and orphanages and camps for kids, sponsor Little League and bowling teams, buy enormous quantities of mostly worthless merchandise to help out with fund raising projects, donate cars to drivers ed programs, and give huge quantities of cash to relief efforts and charitable causes. It makes them feel good to do it, because they can. Most poor people can't.
    So the rich should get heavy tax cuts because a few of them distributes a small fraction of their wealth as alms for the poor?

    I think it would be much more efficient to fund all these good and useful things through taxation. This ensures that the provision of public goods is decided in a democratic way instead of being controlled by the whims of rich people who want a monument for their greater glory.

    Rich people also run the businesses that hire the poor people and give them a chance to make themselves rich.


    But the large majority of rich people, just like everybody else, acquired their wealth ethically, honorably, and honestly just like everybody else, and they have unalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness just like everybody else.
    I fail to see how progressive taxation threatens rich people's right to life, liberty or the pursuit of happiness. We are talking about taxing them; not killing them or sending them to Guantanamo (although prison time seems a fair punishment for some of the financial terrorists who wrecked the economy by gambling on derivates and plundered public funds to the bailouts).

    The minute you adopt the attitude that Citizen A has more than Citizen B for whatever reason and therefore it is okay to forcibly take some of what Citizen A has and not Citizen B, you generate and promote corruption. When you adopt the attitude that all people are entitled to the fruit of their own labor without prejudice, you have a society that is truly free and open and inspirational to all who aspire to make their own lives better.
    Hard work and labour don't make you rich. The ultra-rich did not become rich because they worked more than everyone else. What makes you rich is owning stuff like banks or insurance companies.

    A flat tax is the most fair, equitable, and least regressive way to raise revenues to fund the necessary responsibility and obligations of government. Because they have more, the rich will pay much more than the poor, but if everybody pays, everybody has a valid stake in the system and it is far more difficult to corrupt.
    As far as I see it the calls for a flat tax is in itself an expression of the corruption of the system by the rich who will benefit most from such a tax.

    A flat tax will make the rich richer and everyone else poorer.
    The poor complain; they always do
    But thatís just idle chatter
    Our system brings reward to all
    At least all those who matter.

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