View Poll Results: Which do you prefer:

Voters
197. You may not vote on this poll
  • Income tax - no changes in the status quo

    39 19.80%
  • Flat tax - Everyone pays the same %

    67 34.01%
  • National sales tax - don't spend, you don't pay taxes

    47 23.86%
  • No tax - Unconstitutional - rely on private donations

    10 5.08%
  • Other - explain

    21 10.66%
  • Cookies!

    13 6.60%
Page 24 of 90 FirstFirst ... 1422232425263474 ... LastLast
Results 231 to 240 of 899

Thread: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

  1. #231
    onomatopoeic
    mbig's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Last Seen
    04-20-17 @ 08:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,350

    Re: FairTaxFraud.com

    Quote Originally Posted by rally2xs View Post

    I can see from the demeanor, and factual errors of this particular post, that you are going to simply ignore any arguments that I come up with for the fair tax. Your previous articles to which you refer by number are, largely, simply assertions without any numbers to back them up. So, since it is incredibly time-consuming to answer a post this long on a point-by-point basis, I'm just going to hit the high spots.
    The numbers are from The Congressonal Joint committee on Taxes and the US Treasury Department and other analyses.
    and publishd in the NYT, WSJ, etc.

    The Fairtax CULT claimed number is from ITSELF.
    When askd to 'prove god' you can't cite the Bible.
    Unbelievable.


    Rent - where I come from, pretty much anyone can buy a house, just not a new house. No real NEED for rent. Here's a few offerings; these are good houses, not decrepit fixer-uppers:

    $11,000:
    [url=http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/310-S-Poplar_Fostoria_OH_44830_1105336628]310 S Poplar, Fostoria, OH, 44830 - MLS
    Just 3 examples.
    Maybe in Fostoria Ohio.. but this is Hardly representative of the country!
    Unrepresentative ANECDOTE from Busted town, USA isn't logic or Empirical evidence.
    Natl avg home prices are more like 200K.

    Also, there are embedded costs ....
    The 'embedded cost' BS is common and false.
    It's Fairytax that creates layers of embedded costs, .... and even the embedded cost assertion was true, Fairytax would have to Raise it's claimed rate to make up for the accompanying price drop/revenue loss.
    30% would have to go to 36% because of the Ostensible 20% embed.
    That goes for much of the argument not quoted.

    If, as you can read from the analysys, the Govt doesn't pay Itself/Circle Jerk that Fairtax has to go up another 25% a Govt spending is so much of the economy.


    People's insurance companies are going to pay for their heart operations, just like they do now. Having the income tax go away are going to make these operations, and all medical things cheaper. We're going to be replacing one tax with another, so it is not valid to ignore the 1st tax going away while dealing with the effects of the 2nd tax. It will balance out, and mostly in favor of the American people.
    Health Insurance/Healthcare is a necessity that will just get yet more expensive for those who can't afford andf isn't nearly, like rent, offset by the bogus Prebate.

    You're rant about who thought of the fair tax and what the rich might be getting or not betrays your underpinnings; You're upset that the Fair Tax is absolutely no good as an instrument to "stick it to the rich." Nope, its for financing the government, not for punishing success.
    Completely Wrong.
    I manage money for a living. I don't want "to stick it to me", but I do know we can't shift the Burden down any more.
    It's indisputable Income and Standard of Living disparity are at all time highs and growing.

    As it is [Even] now we have to send out stimulous checks so the little guy can afford the most basic things like cars and computers... and utilities and prescriptions.
    You can't Add to those basic costs... and you can't take any more from those who are in the bottom 50%.
    The only reason, in fact, stimulous checks were sent out is that (all agree) it's So Bad the litlle guy can't afford to buy the products that Support the Big Guys stocks!
    So We Had both parties agreeing.
    But that's the proof of the pudding as I've said several times in this string to which you've put up only pitiful answers.

    You're wrong about the example of the rich that I gave. In order for the rich to be paying capital gains, they'd have to own some stocks. I said, they just sat on their pile of money, and if anything, they invested in some municipal bonds. Their tax liability under the income tax is zero. Nada. Nothing. If they don't have any muni bonds, then the same thing. And, of course, there's $10 - $15 trillion dollars ALREADY overseas, both legally and illegally, for the single, sole purpose of avoiding the income tax. It works, too. With the Fair Tax, it will come rushing back into the country, either to invest in works that will ultimately create jobs, or be put in banks, who will loan it out to entrepreneurs that will build factories, in order to make money, and.. that will create more jobs.
    As I said, I manage money.
    The Rich by-and-large DO have Stocks and Capital Gains and Dividends, they aren't all in Municipal Bonds!
    How Ridiculous!
    Ever heard of 'Hedge Funds'.
    Those are pools of Rich people's money earnng LARGE but TAXABLE returns.


    I own some municipal bonds.. about 10% of my portfolio.. but the vast majority of rich are far more aggressive than that both in Stocks, TaxABLE bonds and Private equity. All Now Taxable.

    And what will offset the Income tax receipts, to just name One well known pool, of the top 5 in each of the Fortune 500's salaries .. many into 8 Digits a year.. all Now Taxable.

    Millions of less well off are goint to have to make up for those lost Income tax receipts when they buy their Ham and cheese Sandwiches, Cheerios, and Antibiotics.

    You may be an authority on Fostoria Ohio but you clearly no Nothing about the Rich or the economy.
    NOTHING.

    You get hung up on the rate of foreign wages..
    Yeah, I guess at $1 an hour I just know we can't compete.
    That's what did ruin the 'Rust belt' if NOT the economy as a whole.

    The economy _has_ been gutted over the last 50 years. Go see the hulks of buildings in new England, that used to be textile mills. Go to Pittsburgh,...
    Yes but that's My point.
    Those are the businesses that can't compete with Foreign Wages.
    And why houses in Fostoria sell for ZIP.
    But the economy was doing very well until that and other places more tech etc oriented have Boomed.

    We just need to spread the wealth some by not Continually dropping tax rates on the rich (as Bush did with Cap Gains/Divs) and thereby rasing the Deficit and creating more Inflation/The Hidden TAX on us all.


    You're 56 / 57 percent rants as figures for the fair tax are laughable. You have no math basis on which to base them, only the political rants from a website that was created to attack a Republican candidate for president last year.

    The NY Times/Wall Street Journal... and the Dep Treas secretary, and the Congressional Joint commitee on Taxation, US Treasury dept... are "politcal rants"!!
    While you accept the Self-Stated CULT'S number of 23/30%?

    This is Ridiculous and beneath debate, but obviously necessary for you to maintain the illusion/delusion.


    As also stated in one of my links.. no need to worry tho..
    Everyone with Half a Brain knows this baby isn't going anywhere and can't even get serious hearings because it would be Laughed out of the room.
    (and no one wants to perjur themselves under oath as opposed to paid opinion pieces)
    It's a clear JOKE/transparent Scam on it's face to 3 digit IQers.

    Nor do we have any answers to the Myriad of other facts in those articles beyond the Bogus Rate of Fairy tax.
    -
    Last edited by mbig; 01-09-10 at 07:17 PM.
    I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.
    anon

  2. #232
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:04 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,630

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    The biggest problem with a progressive tax structure is the power it gives congress.

    It pits net tax producers against Net tax consumers. Politicians gain power by promising a majority of the voters that all the government goodies they want will be paid for by ever-escalating tax rate hikes on a MINORITY that cannot out vote them.

    This short sighted mindset wins elections for those who pander to the looter mentality but in the long run they only cut their own throats because the rich will leave and the standard of living for the dependency addicts decreases and they no longer will be able to make a better life for themselves due to their own industry

    EVERYONE should suffer when taxes are raised. That is why I favor a sales tax or in the alternative a flat tax where everyone pays something. If you lose nothing when taxes are raised, you have absolutely NO INCENTIVE to demand less spending and less taxes.



  3. #233
    User
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Seen
    01-10-10 @ 12:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    11

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    I fail to see how just because I earn more money than another, I have to pay more than they do.

    Plainly: Percents are annoying. Sales tax is interesting, but still annoying. Have each person make the same contribution to taxes as the person next to them. If Person X is paying $2500 in taxes, then Person Y will be paying the exact same.

  4. #234
    Sage
    AlbqOwl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:24 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    17,515
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Okay, how about this?

    Nobody pays any federal income tax on income up to the poverty line. That takes care of rent, groceries, underwear, bus fare, and maybe even a movie ticket now and then.

    A flat tax - one flat percentage rate is paid by everybody across the board on all income above the established poverty line.

    No welfare or any other charity of any kind will be dispensed by the Federal government but that will become the responsibility of the states who can set whatever standards they wish for that.

    The Federal government will not spend one dime that it does not absolutely have to spend until all required obligations are met and there is money left over in the treasury.

    The Federal government will not spend one dime that is not accounted for on line on an easily accessable and understandable website.

    So there you would have the simplicity, fairness, economy, practicality, and transparency called for by the Tax Foundation.
    Last edited by AlbqOwl; 01-09-10 at 10:20 PM.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  5. #235
    Count Smackula
    rathi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    10-31-15 @ 10:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    7,890

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    It pits net tax producers against Net tax consumers. Politicians gain power by promising a majority of the voters that all the government goodies they want will be paid for by ever-escalating tax rate hikes on a MINORITY that cannot out vote them.
    That is the exact opposite of what has happened in reality. The top tax rate has been steadily declining over the last 50 years. Nice rhetoric though.

    Scroll to towards the bottom for a chart of the top tax rate throughout the 20th century. The 35% rate today is considerably lower than the typical rate of the previous century.
    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States]Income tax in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

  6. #236
    Stigmatized! End R Word! Kali's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Last Seen
    08-19-12 @ 12:29 AM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    13,334
    Blog Entries
    7

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    We have an inefficient version of this already.
    But we do not have a flat rate tax system. We could just carry that over to the flat tax system.

    Please tell me you do not think poor people should have to pay taxes? I feel if you fall under a set budget you should not have to pay anything and of course if you are on public aid should pay nothing.
    ~Following My Own Flow~

  7. #237
    Girthless
    RightinNYC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Last Seen
    01-23-11 @ 11:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    25,894

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    But we do not have a flat rate tax system. We could just carry that over to the flat tax system.

    Please tell me you do not think poor people should have to pay taxes? I feel if you fall under a set budget you should not have to pay anything and of course if you are on public aid should pay nothing.
    I'm saying that people who earn below X amount should be exempted from income taxes altogether, as opposed to the inefficient system we have where they pay taxes up front, then receive that amount back later.

    Whether we do this in our current tax system or in some hybrid or flat tax system makes no difference to me (on that issue).
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  8. #238
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by rally2xs View Post

    The FAIR TAX is NOT regressive, the INCOME TAX is HIGHLY regressive.
    LOL! Only the clear channel crowd believes that so it might be a catchy slogan for the tea baggers party. Party on Garth!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #239
    Advisor Regicollis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Denmark
    Last Seen
    12-09-10 @ 11:35 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    318

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    I fail to see the justice in a flat tax. If the same revenue has to be generated, introducing a flat tax would mean that the rich would get tax cuts while ordinary citizens and the poor would have to pay more. Furthermore a flat tax would mean that money used for luxuries would be taxed as hard as money used for necessities. That does not seem fair.

    The money you need for rent, utilities, food and fuel should not be taxed as heavily as those used for conspicuous consumption by the rich.

    "Flat tax" is basically class warfare by the rich who want all other people to bear more of the tax burden.
    The poor complain; they always do
    But thatís just idle chatter
    Our system brings reward to all
    At least all those who matter.

  10. #240
    I invented Human Nature
    Z3n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Seen
    05-13-12 @ 06:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,251

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    What do rich people have against giving back to the system that made them so wealthy in the first place? Even after progressive income tax, the wealthy class still has more money than the lower ones, so shut the hell up and keep abusing it.....

Page 24 of 90 FirstFirst ... 1422232425263474 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •