View Poll Results: Which do you prefer:

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  • Income tax - no changes in the status quo

    39 19.80%
  • Flat tax - Everyone pays the same %

    67 34.01%
  • National sales tax - don't spend, you don't pay taxes

    47 23.86%
  • No tax - Unconstitutional - rely on private donations

    10 5.08%
  • Other - explain

    21 10.66%
  • Cookies!

    13 6.60%
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Thread: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

  1. #121
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Contrary to popular thought, poor people do pay taxes through out the year.

    When people say its regressive that do so without knowing the reality of the situation, at least in my opinion.
    I see, regressive simply means the opposite of progressive, whereby the rich pay a greater share. Any change to the status quo is regressive to those people. We need to completely rethink our tax policy. Coupled with rethinking our budgetary expenses, we could drop the deficit and start paying off the debt.

  2. #122
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I see, regressive simply means the opposite of progressive, whereby the rich pay a greater share. Any change to the status quo is regressive to those people. We need to completely rethink our tax policy. Coupled with rethinking our budgetary expenses, we could drop the deficit and start paying off the debt.
    Pretty much, in my experience, "poor" people have single rate taxes deducted out of their paychecks now because they don't know what to claim and to get it all back at the end of year.

    They don't understand that doing it that ways causing them to have even less money after inflation.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  3. #123
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    And we're not talking about taxing wealth
    You may not want to talk about wealth, but there it is just the same.

    And the top 5% also pay 60.63% of federal income tax
    Which is comparable to the percentage of wealth they own as I've shown in my previous post ~

    "The top 5 percent own more than half of all wealth.

    "In 1998, they owned 59 percent of all wealth. Or to put it another way, the top 5 percent had more wealth than the remaining 95 percent of the population, collectively."

    How exactly has the disparity grown under Bush if it went from 83% in 1998 to just over 80% in 2003?
    "The new data also shows that the top 300,000 Americans collectively enjoyed almost as much income as the bottom 150 million Americans. Per person, the top group received 440 times as much as the average person in the bottom half earned, nearly doubling the gap from 1980."

    "The disparities may be even greater for another reason. The Internal Revenue Service estimates that it is able to accurately tax 99 percent of wage income but that it captures only about 70 percent of business and investment income, most of which flows to upper-income individuals, because not everybody accurately reports such figures."
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/29/bu...4.5075504.html
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  4. #124
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Re: Changes in the tax code under Bush versus those under previous presidents.

    In 1992, the richest 1% earned 14.25% of all national income, while the bottom 50% earned 14.92%. In 2000, the richest 1% earned 20.81%, while the bottom 50% earned 12.99%. Under Bill Clinton, the richest 1% saw its income share soar by 46.04% while the poorest 50% saw its income share drop by 12.94%

    In 2007, the last year we have available, the richest 1% earned 22.83%, while the bottom 50% earned 12.26%. Under 7 years of George Bush, the richest 1% saw its income share increase by 9.7%, while the poorest 50% saw its income share drop by 5.6%.

    Thus, we can see that the inequality between the richest 1% and the bottom 50% in terms of income share grew about 5 times faster under Bill Clinton than under George Bush.

    But didn't Bush cut taxes for the rich, shouldering the burden for running the country onto the poor? Let's look at the numbers.

    In 2000, the richest 1% paid 37.42% of all federal income taxes while the bottom 50% paid 3.91%. In 2007, the richest 1% paid 40.42% while the bottom 50% paid 2.89%. Under 7 years of George Bush, the richest 1% saw its share of federal income tax increase by 8.02% while the poorest 50% saw its share drop by 26.01%.

    (None of this changes the fact that many of these shifts are unrelated to who is in office, but for those who want to believe that it does, they should at least have the right information.)
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  5. #125
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Poor to some people is being unable to buy your kid a PS3 for Christmas.
    Prosecuting juveniles in the south bronx, which contains the poorest Congressional district in the country, the #1 crime that we dealt with was the theft or robbery of T-Mobile Sidekicks from other kids. I'm sitting there taking statements from a 13-year old who had his sidekick jacked, while checking the time on my boot-ass $40 phone that I got with my 2-year $10/month family plan. Absolutely surreal.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  6. #126
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You may not want to talk about wealth, but there it is just the same.
    It's not that I don't want to talk about it, it's that it's irrelevant to a discussion on income tax, because it's untaxable.

    "The new data also shows that the top 300,000 Americans collectively enjoyed almost as much income as the bottom 150 million Americans. Per person, the top group received 440 times as much as the average person in the bottom half earned, nearly doubling the gap from 1980."
    Bush was in office from 1980-2007? Interesting.

    "The disparities may be even greater for another reason. The Internal Revenue Service estimates that it is able to accurately tax 99 percent of wage income but that it captures only about 70 percent of business and investment income, most of which flows to upper-income individuals, because not everybody accurately reports such figures."
    The fact that the IRS can tax all reported wage income does not mean that it taxes all wage income. When you factor in the tens of millions of people who work under the table or otherwise underreport their self-employment, I doubt it's that different.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  7. #127
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    .....

    But didn't Bush cut taxes for the rich, shouldering the burden for running the country onto the poor? Let's look at the numbers.

    In 2000, the richest 1% paid 37.42% of all federal income taxes while the bottom 50% paid 3.91%. In 2007, the richest 1% paid 40.42% while the bottom 50% paid 2.89%. Under 7 years of George Bush, the richest 1% saw its share of federal income tax increase by 8.02% while the poorest 50% saw its share drop by 26.01%.
    ....
    Small detail....

    Bush cut Taxes DRAMATICALLY for the Rich.

    Note RInyc uncludes "income taxes" only.

    Under Bush, Taxes on Capital Gains and Dividends nearlly HALVED from 28% to 15%. Most truly wealthy people don't get taxed much on payroll deduction/income tax.

    (Thanks W, me and my old friends invest for a living and we did by Far the best under Bush. I post here while/between/after managing my and other money)

    That's right (in any city), If you just sit collecting 5% interest on your $100,000,0000 your taxes went from $1.4 million to $750,000.
    At a still modest 10% interest/divs/Cap Gains that's a TAX CUT from $2.8 million to $1.5 million.
    And so on, Up the line.

    And of course, also Slashed the Estate tax to pass on true wealth to the next generation to do the same.

    And When one speaks of the Bush Years vs the Clinton Years, one must realize that Clinton basically ran Balanced Budgets, while Bush Tremendously increased the Deficit to Pay FOR those tax cuts for the rich.
    That's right, Bush' tax rates were only possible while BORROWING money to pay for them.

    These high Deficits directly Result in Inflation/THE Hidden but huge Tax effecting especially those who spend all their money for necessities.
    ie, Half of oil's 'rise' was really just the **** dollar Bush created.
    Think about THAT Unstated tax alone.

    Taxes will go up no matter who's president over the next 20 years because rates right now, are too low to maintain even the non-discretionary portion of the budget/now by far the largest part of the Budget, and a reasonable amount of non-discretionary spending (like Military).
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    Last edited by mbig; 01-08-10 at 05:23 PM.
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  8. #128
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    Small detail....

    Bush cut Taxes DRAMATICALLY for the Rich.

    Note RInyc uncludes "income taxes" only.

    Under Bush, Taxes on Capital Gains and Dividends nearlly HALVED from 28% to 15%. Most truly wealthy people don't get taxed much on payroll deduction/income tax.

    (Thanks W, me and my old friends invest for a living and we did by Far the best under Bush. I post here while/between/after managing my and other money)

    That's right (in any city), If you just sit collecting 5% interest on your $100,000,0000 your taxes went from $1.4 million to $750,000.
    At a still modest 10% interest/divs/Cap Gains that's a TAX CUT from $2.8 million to $1.5 million.

    And of course, also Slashed the Estate tax to pass on true wealth to the next generation to do the same.

    And When one speaks of the Bush Years vs the Clinton Years, one must realize that Clinton basically ran Balanced Budgets, while Bush Tremendously increased the Deficit to Pay FOR those tax cuts for the rich.
    That's right Bush' tax rates were only possible while BORROWING money to pay for them.

    These high Deficits directly Result in Inflation/THE Hidden Tax effecting especially those who spend all their money for necessities.
    ie, Half of oil's 'rise' was really just the **** dollar Bush created.
    Think about THAT Unstated tax alone.

    Taxes will go up no matter who's president over the next 20 years becaus rates right now, are too low to maintain even the non-discretionary portion of the budget/now by far the largest part of the Budget.
    -

    "There is class warfare and my side is winning"

    -Warren Buffett 5 years ago.
    The figures I quoted include capital gains earnings and taxes.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  9. #129
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Prosecuting juveniles in the south bronx, which contains the poorest Congressional district in the country, the #1 crime that we dealt with was the theft or robbery of T-Mobile Sidekicks from other kids. I'm sitting there taking statements from a 13-year old who had his sidekick jacked, while checking the time on my boot-ass $40 phone that I got with my 2-year $10/month family plan. Absolutely surreal.
    Hehe. Tell me about it. I don't even own a phone right now. Girls look at me like I'm crazy when I tell them that.

    Girl: Okay, what's your number? *Takes out her I-Phone*

    Me: I don't have a phone. Just give me your number.

    Girl:

  10. #130
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    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

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