View Poll Results: Which do you prefer:

Voters
197. You may not vote on this poll
  • Income tax - no changes in the status quo

    39 19.80%
  • Flat tax - Everyone pays the same %

    67 34.01%
  • National sales tax - don't spend, you don't pay taxes

    47 23.86%
  • No tax - Unconstitutional - rely on private donations

    10 5.08%
  • Other - explain

    21 10.66%
  • Cookies!

    13 6.60%
Page 11 of 90 FirstFirst ... 9101112132161 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 110 of 899

Thread: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

  1. #101
    Human 2.0
    Maximus Zeebra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Western Europe
    Last Seen
    09-07-17 @ 10:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    6,568

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Flat tax benefits only the rich... it is also promoted by the rich and the uneducated.

    Consumption tax only punishes the poor and benefits only the rich.

    Only thing that is fair for society (not the individual) is a progressive tax systems without too many deductions.
    What? The system in the US now benefits the rich who pays much less a percentage of their income/winnings in tax than does the middle class and the lower class.

    There should be a flat tax and flat consumption tax, then nobody could complain because everyone pay the same tax per /usd. With a social system who benefits the poor that is not detrimental to the poor at all.

    Futhermore the VAT system should be so to discourage unhealthy/bad things and be non existent or very low on base items. Food/vegetables/fruit/rice/pasta and such should have no VAT, while cigarettes/alcohol should have very high VAT. This would further reward the poor who spend more of their money as a percent of their earnings on food than the rich.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  2. #102
    Sage
    AlbqOwl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    17,509
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by SgtRock View Post
    I find it intresting that several of those who voted for no change to the current system of income tax are from the party of change as opposed to the party of the status quo. It seems that conservatives are more intrested in seeing a changed to the current system. Does that mean that in this instance conservatives are about change?
    Modern American conservatives do not and have never fit the dictionary definition or the European definition of conservative. Our modern conservatives are absolutely about change to fix what's wrong while retaining what is right. They are opposed to fixing stuff that isn't broken or changing what works or messing with what has proved to be a good thing throughout the history of this country.

    My definition of modern American conservative (adapted from Wiki's definition of classical liberals):

    Modern American Conservatism is a doctrine stressing individual freedom, free markets, and limited government. This includes the importance of human rationality, individual property rights, natural rights, the protection of civil liberties, individual freedom from restraint, equality under the law, constitutional limitation of government, free markets, and a gold standard to place fiscal constraints on government as exemplified in the writings of John Locke, Adam Smith, David Hume, David Ricardo, Voltaire, Montesquieu and others.

    The "normative core" of modern American conservatism is appreciation for virtues and values promoting life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness along with the idea that laissez-faire economics will bring about a spontaneous order or invisible hand that benefits the society. It does not oppose a social contract by which the state provides some basic public services with what constitutes public services being seen as very limited.

    Modern American conservatism promotes strong national defense and necessary regulation to prevent the citiziens/states from doing violence to each other, but otherwise wants federal government to be limited to its constitutionally mandated responsibilities and it objects to most socialist concepts and a federal welfare state.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  3. #103
    Human 2.0
    Maximus Zeebra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Western Europe
    Last Seen
    09-07-17 @ 10:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    6,568

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Modern American conservatives do not and have never fit the dictionary definition or the European definition of conservative. Our modern conservatives are absolutely about change to fix what's wrong while retaining what is right. They are opposed to fixing stuff that isn't broken or changing what works or messing with what has proved to be a good thing throughout the history of this country.

    My definition of modern American conservative (adapted from Wiki's definition of classical liberals):
    Quote Originally Posted by that wiki
    Modern American Conservatism is a doctrine stressing individual freedom, free markets, and limited government. This includes the importance of human rationality, individual property rights, natural rights, the protection of civil liberties, individual freedom from restraint


    The American conservatives are the straight opposite of that described above man. Seriously. Common, how can you even embarress yourself by putting labels such as "civil liberties", "individual freedom" and "limited government" on conservatives..


    YIKES man.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  4. #104
    Sage
    AlbqOwl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    17,509
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    Actually, we already provide affordable transportation in the form of public roads and public transportation, and we provide affordable food in the form of food stamps and subsidies. I also advocate the government providing affordable housing by giving housing companies an incentive to construct smaller homes affordable to lower-income wage earners.
    Many Americans do not have access to vehicles to use those public roads nor access to public transportation. But they have to get to work or the grocery store just like everybody else. So should the government be providing them transportation?

    In the name of urban renewal, the government razed hundreds of old neighborhoods that might have been crude or inadequate, but that contained vital and thriving neighborhoods where neighbors knew and cared about and took care of each other and kept up their property as best as they could. Those neighborhoods were replaced with the projects that rapidly became deteriorating, rat infested, crime ridden slums.

    In the name of civil rights, the government dismantled most black institutions that had sustained and encouraged the black community which, though largely poor, was the fastest rising group economically in America at the time. The result was a reversal of much the progress of black people and creation of crime ridden ghettos and escalation of class warfare while government learned to exploit black people for their own purposes. That is a racism far more insidious than blatant racial prejudice.

    In the name of eradicating poverty, trillions of dollars have been poured into the effort with the result that the poor are still with us while whole populations have been rendered unemployable, uneducated, and consigned to intractable poverty or a life of crime. This might be the most cruel and unconscionable hoax the American government has ever committed.

    It would seem that bright people would begin to catch on to the fallacy that the nanny state only perpetuates itself and in the long term is far more damaging that are policies that encourage the people to accomplish for themselves.

    And yet they allowed for racial slavery, which shows how hypocritical the Founding Fathers, or at least the myth of them, can be.
    Different subject for a different thread, but applying 21st century morality to an 18th century society is not productive, helpful, or pertinent. We do many many things differently now than what was 'normal' two hundred years ago. Much we do better than they did. And some things we do much worse.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  5. #105
    Sage
    AlbqOwl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    17,509
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post


    The American conservatives are the straight opposite of that described above man. Seriously. Common, how can you even embarress yourself by putting labels such as "civil liberties", "individual freedom" and "limited government" on conservatives..


    YIKES man.
    You only show your ignorance by expressing your prejudice.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  6. #106
    Sage
    AlbqOwl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    17,509
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    God damn. That is some good stuff.
    Thank you. Isn't it a pity that those who most need to know that stuff are the ones who won't read it?
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  7. #107
    Sage
    AlbqOwl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    17,509
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    That was a guess I made based on our history of a majority of Republican presidents. It makes no difference to the fact that Republicans have also not ended Social Security or Medicare when they were in control.

    Which Republican do you think will make the stand to do away with Social Security and Medicare. I must be out of the loop. have heard none of the potential candidates take this position.
    You don't seem to be hearing. Maybe if I type more slowly?

    They didn't do away with social security or medicare when they were in control because a) they were wimps and didn't want to take the political heat and b) they did not want to cause the unbelievable suffering that would have caused. You must have skipped the clause where I said reversal of those programs would have to be done slowly and carefully and over decades just as it has taken decades for them to spiral out of control.

    I hope with all my heart that we elect a Congress with the backbone to begin the process soon. But it has to be well communicated and provide assurances for those whose only means of support are those government checks. People have to be educated as to why the process is necessary and it has to be done without scaring them to death. Right now there is so much vitriol and hatred and bitter partisanship that each side grossly distorts the efforts of the other to make sure that the other side doesn't get any credit for anything. That is a really sad state of affairs.

    The Contract with America Republicans did do some impressive work in beginning to put those programs into reverse so that they could be phased out gradually without causing unnecessary pain. Clinton vetoed two or three welfare reform bills before he realized the public wanted it and then he finally signed one. That was a good start. He vetoed any efforts at social security reform or privatization, however, and the GOP didn't have sufficient numbers to override the veto and lacked the will to keep pushing that.

    By the time President Bush was in office, the GOP had reverted from that visionary reform minded mentality and had become Democrat light. The results were pretty bad.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  8. #108
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last Seen
    07-23-12 @ 03:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    6,763
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    I am for a national sales tax/consumption tax on all goods and services except for food. To cover our budget, this seems to mean a 22% tax. Since the income tax will go away, this will balance out for most people. But the rich will pay less (as more of their income goes untaxed to investment) while the poor will pay more (currently pay no income tax, will start to pay 22% sales tax for consumed goods).

    I have read in the thread that people are against this type of tax because it is a) regressive and b) punishes the poor. Why is this? Could someone explain? It seems more balanced to me paying for consumption. Why is that bad?

    I have also read that people think a consumption tax is c) too large and d) not enough income generated and e) hurts businesses. I don't see it, especially where it is said to hurt businesses.

  9. #109
    Count Smackula
    rathi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    10-31-15 @ 10:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    7,890

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    I have read in the thread that people are against this type of tax because it is a) regressive and b) punishes the poor. Why is this? Could someone explain? It seems more balanced to me paying for consumption. Why is that bad?
    Poor people today do not pay 22 percent of their income in taxes today, but spend closer to 100% on goods effected by a consumption tax. Thus they would pay significantly more in taxes. The wealthy by comparison, pay more than 22% in income taxes today, and spend much much less of their income on goods that would be covered by the consumption tax. Therefor it wold shift the tax burden more onto the poor and less onto the wealthy compared to today's tax system.


    I have also read that people think a consumption tax is c) too large and d) not enough income generated and e) hurts businesses. I don't see it, especially where it is said to hurt businesses.
    Consumption taxes can hurt business, although its a complex issue with no easy answer. A big problem occur when dealing with foreign purchases of goods. Buying outside the country would be popular is you could avoid the tax. For example, going to Canada to buy a 20,000 dollar car and driving it back saves you more than 4000 bucks. American car dealers could end up in distress.

  10. #110
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last Seen
    07-23-12 @ 03:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    6,763
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Income tax; Flat tax; National Sales tax; No tax

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Poor people today do not pay 22 percent of their income in taxes today, but spend closer to 100% on goods effected by a consumption tax. Thus they would pay significantly more in taxes. The wealthy by comparison, pay more than 22% in income taxes today, and spend much much less of their income on goods that would be covered by the consumption tax. Therefor it wold shift the tax burden more onto the poor and less onto the wealthy compared to today's tax system.
    A very nice explanation. But why is that considered regressive? You want investments to be untaxed to create businesses and jobs. Poor people use more services from the government and ought to pay a more equitable share.

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Consumption taxes can hurt business, although its a complex issue with no easy answer. A big problem occur when dealing with foreign purchases of goods. Buying outside the country would be popular is you could avoid the tax. For example, going to Canada to buy a 20,000 dollar car and driving it back saves you more than 4000 bucks. American car dealers could end up in distress.
    Well, aside from the fact that American car dealers are already in distress, I can see the problem you point out. I used to live in Northern Mass. and I would drive to NH to buy electronics as they had no sales tax. The tax system would just need to compensate for those lost sales. I don't see how that punishes business. Those American car dealers can sell cars in Canada.

Page 11 of 90 FirstFirst ... 9101112132161 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •