View Poll Results: God Does Not Exist: Logical? Scientific?

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  • Logical but not scientific.

    5 10.42%
  • Scientific but not logical.

    0 0%
  • Logical and scientific.

    11 22.92%
  • Neither logical or scientific.

    32 66.67%
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Thread: God Does Not Exist: Logical Statement?

  1. #11
    Norville Rogers
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    Re: God Does Not Exist: Logical Statement?

    It's a hypothesis, though an untestable one.

    And from wiki

    In logic a statement is a declarative sentence that is either true or false
    So I'd say both

    If you mean scientifically supported or logically sound, that would change my answer

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    Re: God Does Not Exist: Logical Statement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    It's a hypothesis, though an untestable one.

    And from wiki



    So I'd say both

    If you mean scientifically supported or logically sound, that would change my answer
    Imo an argument can be logical and wrong, much like a theory which strictly adheres to scientific standards only to later be falsified. Is a theory unscientific just because it turned out to be wrong? I don't think so.

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    Re: God Does Not Exist: Logical Statement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Can you logically or scientifically assert that God doesn't exist? Yes or no?
    Can you logically assert that God doesn't exist? If you understand why there is a need within a historical context for God to exist in the first place then yes you can logically assert that God doesn't exist as an entity but as a very human response to a situation where the subject is experiencing a deviance around him which he simply can not cope with on his own.

    Ten thousand years ago people simply could not explain why the seasons changed or major disasters happened. They initially tried to explain this with what we would call elemental or spiritual forces. You had hundreds of small groups of people who credited evil spirits will everything from what we now call mental illnesses to blizzards. Their lack of knowledge about the world around them made it essential that they create an explanation or response for it. As the population of the world rose and the first early cities & societies started appearing, the elements and spirits which had worked so well for people in caves and huts no longer seemed to do the job for much larger groups of people. They started creating personalities for these elements. These personalities came with names and stories. You had Iris, Osiris and Rah in Egypt, Zeus, Hera and Hermes in Greece and Mars, Jupiter & Venus in Rome. These are only a handful of the dozens upon dozens of Gods each of which had backstories that involved their creation, daily lives and occupations.

    Then came a revolutionary thought. Why have hundreds of Gods when you could simply have One? One force to explain everything why birds fly, why snow falls and why people die. This concept can be found across the world. Buddhists and Hindus all believe that there is a consistent force in the universe which ties everything together. This concept is not unlike the Holy Spirit. It is something which they claim is there, whether you accept it or not. It(God), like the pantheons of Gods before it, provides an explanation to people of why things we can not explain occur until we find out the true reason. Why is it we no longer explain seasonal changes as the work of God? Why is it we don't say it's God's work when there is an earthquake? Why is it we now explain sickness through bacteria and viruses and not God? When one looks at God through a historical context, you see that at the very least, a concept like God needs to exist to explain things.

    So, I guess that from a sociological perspective, yes God most certainly exists. However God doesn't exist as an entity in this perspective. God exists as a response. God is medicine for people who can not entirely deal with the world around them. From a perspective which expects verifiable scientific proof of God's existence? Then no. He does not. If he does then you are more than welcome to prove his existence through means which can be analyzed by the scientific community.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 12-29-09 at 11:23 PM.
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    Re: God Does Not Exist: Logical Statement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Imo an argument can be logical and wrong, much like a theory which strictly adheres to scientific standards only to later be falsified. Is a theory unscientific just because it turned out to be wrong? I don't think so.
    I agree. The statement fits the definition of a hypothesis, making it a scientific statement regardless of whether or not it is true. Similarly, the term 'statement' in logic can apply to both true and false statements. Hence my answer

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    Re: God Does Not Exist: Logical Statement?

    You can neither prove nor disprove the existence of god through science or logic. Therefore, the statement is not logical, nor is it scientific. You can not, in fact, prove a negative, nor can you prove that god exists. It is a matter of faith.

    However,

    Since we know that creation exists, since we are a part of it, doesn't it follow that a creator also exists?
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    Re: God Does Not Exist: Logical Statement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Can you logically assert that God doesn't exist? If you understand why there is a need within a historical context for God to exist in the first place then yes you can logically assert that God doesn't exist as an entity but as a very human response to a situation where the subject is experiencing a deviance around him which he simply can not cope with on his own.

    Ten thousand years ago people simply could not explain why the seasons changed or major disasters happened. They initially tried to explain this with what we would call elemental or spiritual forces. You had hundreds of small groups of people who credited evil spirits will everything from what we now call mental illnesses to blizzards. Their lack of knowledge about the world around them made it essential that they create an explanation or response for it. As the population of the world rose and the first early cities & societies started appearing, the elements and spirits which had worked so well for people in caves and huts no longer seemed to do the job for much larger groups of people. They started creating personalities for these elements. These personalities came with names and stories. You had Iris, Osiris and Rah in Egypt, Zeus, Hera and Hermes in Greece and Mars, Jupiter & Venus in Rome. These are only a handful of the dozens upon dozens of Gods each of which had backstories that involved their creation, daily lives and occupations.

    Then came a revolutionary thought. Why have hundreds of Gods when you could simply have One? One force to explain everything why birds fly, why snow falls and why people die. This concept can be found across the world. Buddhists and Hindus all believe that there is a consistent force in the universe which ties everything together. This concept is not unlike the Holy Spirit. It is something which they claim is there, whether you accept it or not. It(God), like the pantheons of Gods before it, provides an explanation to people of why things we can not explain occur until we find out the true reason. Why is it we no longer explain seasonal changes as the work of God? Why is it we don't say it's God's work when there is an earthquake? Why is it we now explain sickness through bacteria and viruses and not God? When one looks at God through a historical context, you see that at the very least, a concept like God needs to exist to explain things.

    So, I guess that from a sociological perspective, yes God most certainly exists. However God doesn't exist as an entity in this perspective. God exists as a response. God is medicine for people who can not entirely deal with the world around them. From a perspective which expects verifiable scientific proof of God's existence? Then no. He does not. If he does then you are more than welcome to prove his existence through means which can be analyzed by the scientific community.
    Except I'm not interested in proving anything. I'm just asking if the following statement is supported by science or logic:

    God does not exist.

    Since it is an absolutist assertion of fact without any proof, I don't see it as being a scientifically or logically valid statement. One cannot assert this as being true unless they know everything about the universe. They can certainly claim it as being possible, and they can even choice to believe it's true, but no one can say with any degree of certainty that the assertion is supported by science or necessitated by logic.

  7. #17
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    Re: God Does Not Exist: Logical Statement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Except I'm not interested in proving anything. I'm just asking if the following statement is supported by science or logic:

    God does not exist.

    Since it is an absolutist assertion of fact without any proof, I don't see it as being a scientifically or logically valid statement. One cannot assert this as being true unless they know everything about the universe. They can certainly claim it as being possible, and they can even choice to believe it's true, but no one can say with any degree of certainty that the assertion is supported by science or necessitated by logic.
    The claim does not, and cannot, have any proof because it is impossible to gather evidence of something that you think is nonexistent. If you don't think it exists, how can you gather evidence of it?

    Do you point at the empty space? Do you wait for the empty space to make a noise? Do you try to catch the empty space with a butterfly catchers net?

    Logic dictates that the claim "God does not exists" cannot be supported by evidence. The only way the claim that "God does not exists" can stand is by the lack of substantiation from the claim that "God does exist." In the failure to provide evidence for the latter claim, one does not even need to provide any substantiation for the former claim.
    Last edited by Lightdemon; 12-30-09 at 05:52 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

  8. #18
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    Re: God Does Not Exist: Logical Statement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    The claim does not, and cannot, have any proof because it is impossible to gather evidence of something that you think is nonexistent. If you don't think it exists, how can you gather evidence of it?

    Do you point at the empty space? Do you wait for the empty space to make a noise? Do you try to catch the empty space with a butterfly catchers net?

    Logic dictates that the claim "God does not exists" cannot be supported by evidence. The only way the claim that "God does not exists" can stand is by the lack of substantiation from the claim that "God does exist." In the failure to provide evidence for the latter claim, one does not even need to provide any substantiation for the former claim.
    Basically, neither claim (God doesn't exist / God does exist) can be proven.

  9. #19
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    Re: God Does Not Exist: Logical Statement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Basically, neither claim (God doesn't exist / God does exist) can be proven.
    yes.

    10 characters.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

  10. #20
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    Re: God Does Not Exist: Logical Statement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    yes.

    10 characters.
    Then neither assertion is logical or scientific, since an assertion requires proof. Agreed?

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