View Poll Results: Is it time to profile on airline flights?

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  • Yes

    52 49.06%
  • No

    54 50.94%
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Thread: Is it time to profile on airline flights?

  1. #391
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    Re: Is it time to profile on airline flights?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    No...most often its called police acting like rogue cops. Its a sad day in America where cops who detain people without probable cause based on their skin color or the neighborhood they live in, pat them down, search them without probable cause or a warrant.....and its called "good police work".

    Its also not about "PC", its about upholding our Constitution and not allowing the government to treat people differently based on the color of their skin or their ethnicity.
    As for your second point, why not just allow those who can afford to fly first class the ability to skip the b.s. hassles...essentially what you are advocating is a class based system where those who can afford to fly and travel frequently are able to bypass the hassle, where people who can't afford to travel a lot have to deal with what you rightly call "B.S.".

    God help us as a country if we ever allow the government the power to treat people of different classes/races/ethnicities more differently than they already do.
    Frankly....I'm surprised that so many people are willing to hand over our Constitutional guarantees.
    Doesn't it just blow your mind that the people that rant and rave about how important the Constitution is are also the first to want to stomp all over it?

  2. #392
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    Re: Is it time to profile on airline flights?

    Where in the constitution does it identify "thou shall not profile"?
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  3. #393
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    Re: Is it time to profile on airline flights?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    That don't even make any sense, dude.

    You do realize that German subs never attacked the mainland United States?
    Duquesne Spy Ring, Operation Elster, Operation Pastrious


    True the U-Boats never literally attacked the mainland, but that does not mean they weren't dangerous to Americans. Especially off the East-Coast.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

  4. #394
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    Re: Is it time to profile on airline flights?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    No...most often its called police acting like rogue cops. Its a sad day in America where cops who detain people without probable cause based on their skin color or the neighborhood they live in, pat them down, search them without probable cause or a warrant.....and its called "good police work".

    Its also not about "PC", its about upholding our Constitution and not allowing the government to treat people differently based on the color of their skin or their ethnicity.
    As for your second point, why not just allow those who can afford to fly first class the ability to skip the b.s. hassles...essentially what you are advocating is a class based system where those who can afford to fly and travel frequently are able to bypass the hassle, where people who can't afford to travel a lot have to deal with what you rightly call "B.S.".

    God help us as a country if we ever allow the government the power to treat people of different classes/races/ethnicities more differently than they already do.
    Frankly....I'm surprised that so many people are willing to hand over our Constitutional guarantees.
    The fact that I agree with disnydude 100% says allot.

    I don't agree with him on much of anything.
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  5. #395
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    Re: Is it time to profile on airline flights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Police officers "profile" all the time based upon distinguishing characteristics and behaviors. This isn't racism, it's good police work. It's ridiculous that some kind of misguided political correctness is keeping us from air safety.
    Profiling as in trying to understand the actions someone took by matching them to common known traits and such isn't necessarily bad. Though it would be impractical for something like our large international airports. But I think people are talking about racial/religious profiling. Which becomes something else. I don't think we'd be safer with racial/religious profiling. Hell, I don't think we're safer because of the TSA, the war on terror, or Homeland Security. Another government action isn't going to make us more "safe".

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Frankly, there should be an enhanced system whereby frequent fliers can provide additional information in advance and skip the b.s. hassles, and infrequent fliers get extra scrutiny.
    There was at one time. Some company which did background checks/biometric databasing. It went away cause not enough people were willing to pay for it. And I think a lot had a problem with the type of information the company kept.
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  6. #396
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    Re: Is it time to profile on airline flights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Where in the constitution does it identify "thou shall not profile"?
    The Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution guarantees the right to be safe from unreasonable search and seizure without probable cause. Since the majority of people of all races are law-abiding citizens, merely being of a race which a police officer believes to be more likely to commit a crime than another is not probable cause. In addition, the Fourteenth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution requires that all citizens be treated equally under the law. It has been argued that this makes it unconstitutional for a representative of the government to make decisions based on race. This view has been upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court in Batson v. Kentucky and several other cases

  7. #397
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    Re: Is it time to profile on airline flights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    The Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution guarantees the right to be safe from unreasonable search and seizure without probable cause. Since the majority of people of all races are law-abiding citizens, merely being of a race which a police officer believes to be more likely to commit a crime than another is not probable cause. In addition, the Fourteenth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution requires that all citizens be treated equally under the law. It has been argued that this makes it unconstitutional for a representative of the government to make decisions based on race. This view has been upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court in Batson v. Kentucky and several other cases
    Assigning a profile criteria is a probable cause... therefore the 4th wouldn't apply.

    The 14th wouldn't apply because race would not be a criteria.

    A fairly elementary and easy method of assigning criteria to a profile. However, since you will not answer the question, I will have to answer it for you: The Constitution does not protect one from being profiled - specifically it does not address it. Trying to apply the constitution to irrelevance is up to lawyers and of course, once could argue that breathing air could be un-constitutional (though, that wouldn't be a very successful argument). My point is - it's easy to assign a criteria that would be difficult at best to apply a breach of the Constitution. The reason it has not been done is because of PC bull****. We don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, which is nonsense and I for one refuse to apologize for putting people's lives ahead of their feelings. Get over it.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  8. #398
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    Re: Is it time to profile on airline flights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Where in the constitution does it identify "thou shall not profile"?
    Its a little something called "due process" and "equal protection"....also there is something in there called the 4th Amendment. I'm sure you'll understand when you read it.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Is it time to profile on airline flights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Assigning a profile criteria is a probable cause... therefore the 4th wouldn't apply.
    Can you say "circular reasoning".

    A "profile criteria" that runs afoul of the Constitution is unconstitutional.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  10. #400
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    Re: Is it time to profile on airline flights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Assigning a profile criteria is a probable cause... therefore the 4th wouldn't apply.

    The 14th wouldn't apply because race would not be a criteria.

    A fairly elementary and easy method of assigning criteria to a profile. However, since you will not answer the question, I will have to answer it for you: The Constitution does not protect one from being profiled - specifically it does not address it. Trying to apply the constitution to irrelevance is up to lawyers and of course, once could argue that breathing air could be un-constitutional (though, that wouldn't be a very successful argument). My point is - it's easy to assign a criteria that would be difficult at best to apply a breach of the Constitution. The reason it has not been done is because of PC bull****. We don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, which is nonsense and I for one refuse to apologize for putting people's lives ahead of their feelings. Get over it.
    Your frankly incorrect, at least in regards to the TYPE of profiling that is oft being proposed here.

    You're trying to use the general term profiling and prove that singe the general use of profiling isn't unconstitutional then ALL types of profiling isn't unconstitutional, which is circular and poor logic.

    Making a law that affects religions is not necessarily unconstitional. IE, saying that ALL religions can have their buildings tax exempt isn't unconstitutional. However, if you just said "The Catholic Church can be tax exempt" and that was it, that WOULD be unconstitutional. The fact that the broad application of that standard isn't doesn't make the narrow application okay.

    Profiling, as a broad term.....IE in general you're more likely to look for males then females, nervous people over calm people, people with bulky clothing over tight fitting, those that are of the 20-30 year old range rather than older or younger, one way ticket over two way ticket, cash over credit middle eastern descent over none middle eastern, muslim over non-muslim, etc....where all the various criteria are used without extremely over valuing one or the other or focusing singularly on just the racial/religious ones is far FAR different than many peoples suggstions that EVERY muslim or arabic looking person should automatically, regardless of any other signs, be subject to extensive additional screening with some even advocating cavity searches for simply appearing to be a religion.

    The former I spoke of isn't necessarily unconstitutional, each is making up a much larger profile and you're not segregating a portion of the population based on one fact. The latter is pure religious or ethnic singling out in an unreasonable and unnecessary way which would be a violation of the 4th and 14th.

    Less than 1% of the muslim citizens in this country have committed any sort of terrorist activity. It is therefore an unreasonable search and siezure to exppose the other 99% to extensive and potentially degrading searches for no other reason than the way their skin color looks or their name.

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