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Thread: Marijuana Helps Grow Brain Cells!

  1. #91
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    Re: Marijuana Helps Grow Brain Cells!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    I will never forget the first time I smoked hash. It had such a what word I am looking for? Pungent smell? But oh how I came to love that smell.

    Now sometimes cigar smells remind me of hash. Does it you?

    I must be the only person here that likes the way cigs. smell. I like the smell, taste, etc.
    It's usually different for everyone. I love the smell of dank weed, a nice expensive cigar, but I cannot stand cigarettes. It smells horrible to me and it feels like burns my nose almost just smelling it. Herbal cigarettes aren't that bad though. Everyone's tastes are different I suppose.

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    Re: Marijuana Helps Grow Brain Cells!

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    It's usually different for everyone. I love the smell of dank weed, a nice expensive cigar, but I cannot stand cigarettes. It smells horrible to me and it feels like burns my nose almost just smelling it. Herbal cigarettes aren't that bad though. Everyone's tastes are different I suppose.
    I can't stand the smell of cigarettes, too harsh and they make me feel like I can't breathe if I'm around someone smoking them. I'm pretty neutral about the smell of weed, but I do enjoy the smell of a cigar. It reminds me of my childhood spending time with my grandfather (who smoked Dutch Masters Panetelas until I was about 15). I also really like the smell of a pipe for some reason. If I ever take up smoking it'll be a pipe for sure.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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    Re: Marijuana Helps Grow Brain Cells!

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    It reminds me of my childhood spending time with my grandfather (who smoked Dutch Masters Panetelas until I was about 15). I also really like the smell of a pipe for some reason. If I ever take up smoking it'll be a pipe for sure.
    The Blender's Gold brand carried by Walgreen's is as good as any prestige brand pipe tobacco-- at least as good as any I've tried-- and even their bulk package cigars smoke like cigars that cost several times as much. They're obviously not Cohibas, but you can't do much better for an everyday smoke.

    They've got boxes of twenty 50-ring Maduros for eighteen dollars that taste, smell, and smoke as good as cigars I've paid eight or ten dollars for each.

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    Re: Marijuana Helps Grow Brain Cells!

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    It's all in the attitude. The way I see it, if an idiot is stupid enough to drive down the freeway tokin' and texting, he deserves a ride downtown.

    Give the cops half-a-chance to be cool and they usually will. Give them bad attitude and they will find some way to ruin your day.

    But you already know this.

    Absolutely.

    On a good day I've given verbal warnings for like 30 over speed limit with a person who had the right attitude.

    Also, Ive wrote someone a ticket for their tag lights and failure to sign registration card when they give that, "You SToP me cuZ i bE BlAck!" attitude.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Marijuana Helps Grow Brain Cells!

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    I am sorry, the first major blow to the theory happened 10 years ago, I was going off the cuff and misrepresented the timeframe.

    It was in 1999 that the Institute of Medicine released their ONDCP requested and commissioned report (you are aware of what the ONDCP is I hope?)

    I am not going to go digging through 250 or so pages to find the pertinent info, but if you want here:

    Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base

    after this study the gateway theory stopped getting pushed very hard, and now is almost nonexistent in drug debates, and a LOT less common in government sponsored/sanctioned info.

    It is a loser argument anyways, the gateway theory is a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy (correlation not causation)
    I couldn't find anything in there that "killed" the Gateway theory... You have proved nothing in support of that, except re-stating that the gateway theory is bogus in your mind. I have seen the gateway theory play out in real life. I have seen individuals begin recreational drugs and move on to more hardcore drugs BECAUSE they felt that they had control over those substances, when really everyone loses control of such harmful substances.

    I heard the gateway theory in grade school, including by those who used drugs... It's by no means dead and by no means "a loser argument..."

    And until you have actual evidence to dispute it, the gateway theory will continue to be legitimate and accepted by many.
    “Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checked by failure...than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.”
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    Re: Marijuana Helps Grow Brain Cells!

    The gateway theory is sort of true. Being around marijuana and using it can lead to other drug use.

    But other drug use for the most part isn't dangerous until you're shooting up or doing oodles of meth.

    Whats dangerous is stupid people who don't respect the substance or don't use moderation.

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    Re: Marijuana Helps Grow Brain Cells!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubub View Post
    I couldn't find anything in there that "killed" the Gateway theory... You have proved nothing in support of that, except re-stating that the gateway theory is bogus in your mind. I have seen the gateway theory play out in real life. I have seen individuals begin recreational drugs and move on to more hardcore drugs BECAUSE they felt that they had control over those substances, when really everyone loses control of such harmful substances.

    I heard the gateway theory in grade school, including by those who used drugs... It's by no means dead and by no means "a loser argument..."

    And until you have actual evidence to dispute it, the gateway theory will continue to be legitimate and accepted by many.
    It can be an accepted theory by many, just not those that actually care to do any critical thinking. Unless, of course, you think the researchers at the University of Pittsburgh are idiots. Here, for your personal edification:

    Marijuana is not a “gateway” drug that predicts or eventually leads to substance abuse, suggests a 12-year University of Pittsburgh study. Moreover, the study’s findings call into question the long-held belief that has shaped prevention efforts and governmental policy for six decades and caused many a parent to panic upon discovering a bag of pot in their child’s bedroom.

    (snip)

    While the gateway theory posits that each type of drug is associated with certain specific risk factors that cause the use of subsequent drugs, such as cigarettes or alcohol leading to marijuana, this study’s findings indicate that environmental aspects have stronger influence on which type of substance is used. That is, if it’s easier for a teen to get his hands on marijuana than beer, then he’ll be more likely to smoke pot. This evidence supports what’s known as the common liability model, an emerging theory that states the likelihood that someone will transition to the use of illegal drugs is determined not by the preceding use of a particular drug but instead by the user’s individual tendencies and environmental circumstances.


    “The emphasis on the drugs themselves, rather than other, more important factors that shape a person’s behavior, has been detrimental to drug policy and prevention programs,” Dr. Tarter said. “To become more effective in our efforts to fight drug abuse, we should devote more attention to interventions that address these issues, particularly to parenting skills that shape the child’s behavior as well as peer and neighborhood environments.”

    Study says marijuana no gateway drug | Science Blog
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Marijuana Helps Grow Brain Cells!

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    The gateway theory is sort of true. Being around marijuana and using it can lead to other drug use.

    But other drug use for the most part isn't dangerous until you're shooting up or doing oodles of meth.

    Whats dangerous is stupid people who don't respect the substance or don't use moderation.
    It's because it is illegal that smoking pot can lead to using other drugs. If your dealer sells pot, crank and ecstasy, you're more likely to try the other two because you are exposed to them.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Marijuana Helps Grow Brain Cells!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubub View Post
    You know, the scientific rationale for using weed is the biggest load of crap I've ever heard. Have you ever met a stoner? To say that he is increasing his brain power by using that crap is comical. Not to mention that his social skills are basically put right in the ****ing toilet.
    Define "stoner" and stop generalizing, it makes you look foolish.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

  10. #100
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    Re: Marijuana Helps Grow Brain Cells!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubub View Post
    I couldn't find anything in there that "killed" the Gateway theory... You have proved nothing in support of that, except re-stating that the gateway theory is bogus in your mind. I have seen the gateway theory play out in real life. I have seen individuals begin recreational drugs and move on to more hardcore drugs BECAUSE they felt that they had control over those substances, when really everyone loses control of such harmful substances.

    I heard the gateway theory in grade school, including by those who used drugs... It's by no means dead and by no means "a loser argument..."

    And until you have actual evidence to dispute it, the gateway theory will continue to be legitimate and accepted by many.
    splitting hairs and playing semantics over "killed" huh? that and showing you have little concept of logic, and that the logical fallacy renders the gateway theory invalid (and not legitimate), regardless if the theory is still being pushed in school.

    Just because you heard it in school, does not mean that the theory has been substantiated, or validated, it means, that the propaganda behind the argument continued - consistent with what I did and did not claim in my original statement.

    Lets look at the report from 1999 I brought up:

    In January 1997, the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP) asked the Institute of Medicine to conduct a review of the scientific evidence to assess the potential health benefits and risks of marijuana and its constituent cannabinoids. That review began in August 1997 and culminates with this report.
    The fear that marijuana use might cause, as opposed to merely precede, the use of drugs that are more harmful of great concern. Judging from comments submitted to the IOM study team, this appears to be an even greater concern than the harms directly related to marijuana itself.
    Now, this is an assumption, but I would venture to say a very safe assumption.. the comments submitted, were almost undoubtedly by those who requested this report, meaning the ONDCP had an extraordinary interest in looking at this gateway theory (understandably, it was a cornerstone of their position until this report). The ONDCP wanted this theory substantiated. The substantiation did not come.

    The gateway analogy evokes two ideas that are often confused. The first, more often referred to as the stepping stone hypothesis, is the idea that progression from marijuana to other drugs arises from pharmacological properties of marijuana itself
    The stepping stone hypothesis applies to marijuana only in the broadest sense. People who enjoy the effects of marijuana are, logically, more likely to be willing to try other mood-altering drugs than are people who are not willing to try marijuana or who dislike its effects
    Which is what I had already said, the only gateway here is a predisposition to attain altered states, it is this not the marijuana, it is the individual.

    the gateway theory is a social theory. The latter does not suggest that the pharmacological qualities of marijuana make it a risk factor for progression to other drug use. Instead it is the legal status of marijuana that makes it a gateway drug.


    Marijuana as Medicine - Assessing the Science Base - Institute of Medicine Report

    Again this is what I have claimed, it is NOT the marijuana that is the gateway, it is the PROHIBITION that is the gateway.

    This is why I said the gateway theory has been killed, it has NOT been substantiated, the argument is invalid (as Effoftibs study above exemplified numerous studies since have also failed to produce the necessary causation to validate this theory).


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    now to deal with your silly semantics hang up over my word choice of "killed

    Kill
    3 a : to destroy the vital or essential quality of

    The ONDCP's gateway position had to be validated, they had a huge interest in it being validated with this study; however the position was not validated.

    the essential quality of the theory -which was that marijuana caused people to go on to use other drugs- was not found to be true, in other owrds, it was debunked, in other words causation was not found, in other words, the argument was invalid, in other words the argument was dead in the water, or in other words "killed".. the vital or essential quality of the theory was dead.

    now there have been attempts to resurrect the gateway theory; however causation has still never been established, and without causation it remains an invalid argument committing the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.

    I rode a bike before I drove, therefore my bike riding caused me to drive a car.

    Now I do believe the topic was that marijuana helps grow brain cells? I think we just substantiated that here (provided you learned something)
    Last edited by marduc; 12-24-09 at 10:26 PM.
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