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Has NASA Outlived it's Usefulness?

Has NASA outlived its usefulness

  • Yes

    Votes: 8 11.8%
  • No

    Votes: 60 88.2%

  • Total voters
    68
NASA has outlived its usefulness. I'm not debating whether it was always useless, it had its time, but now it needs to be discarded.
NASA, has done a great job---twenty years ago. but we can no longer afford them. Private concerns, have taken the ball, and are running with it---I'm old, but some people act older. get with it Neighbors. NASA is a Dinosaur.
 
Tempting to say yes..
NASA's agenda and goals are changed, scientific discovery is good.
Fear and ignorance are bad.:( ..as is racism..:(
 
Do tax payers have to support every idea that is not profitable???

Essentially, yes. Research itself is not profitable. It's not supposed to be. NASA's profitable discoveries were essentially given away for the greater good.

Scientific research is one of the very few things I believe the government should be involved in because the free market will not put in the effort to develop truly revolutionary technologies on it's own because it requires an extremely long-term outlook and a will to lose money.

But losing money is not a waste of money if it yields fruit (and NASA research definitely yields fruit). The false dilemma being presented is that if something is not profitable, it is a waste of money. This is false.

The value of technological advancement from NASA research far outweighs the pittance that we personally put into it's research out of our tax dollars each year.
 
Do tax payers have to support every idea that is not profitable???

THIS has already proven to be false. NASA is profitable in terms of the technology it provides.
 
According to what I have read, at the time of Columbus(Cristobal Colón) was leaving Spain (looking for a shortcut) Spain was in a very unstable economic condition.

Not to mention famine and malnutrition being wide spread throughout Europe.Seems that worked out pretty well…except to our native population that is.:2wave:
 
I'd like to add that I believe NASA should be focused primarily on research nowadays. Working on new propulsion systems, aerodynamics, lightweight materials etc.

They need to focus on pushing the envelope because that is exactly what the private sector won't do. Their best achievements have come when they've pushed the envelope. They shouldn't really worry if a project fails. If they are doing their jobs correctly, most of them will.
 
How has it outlived it's usefulness?

I view NASA like any corporation. Recent corporate management indicates that large, massive monstrosities are too unwieldy to navigate the 21st Century. NASA incorporates everything from customer relations to shooting rockets into outer space, and everything in between. That's unprofitable; it is trying to do so many things 'well,' it is not doing anything.

It was a great idea when there was no space industry for NASA to use. Now, when America has the Virgin Group shooting spaceships all on their own; when America has countless R&D projects researching everything about space (and beyond); when America has countless space PR organizations (like you fellows). There is no reason to have some atrophying bureaucracy cum research unit cum regulatory agency.

Break it up, make it more specialized, or make the pieces more specialized. I suggest that one makes it an EPA of space, but in any event: keeping it the way it is will be bad medicine for the future.
 
I view NASA like any corporation.

And you've just demonstrated that you do not know what a corporation is or for that matter what the goal of NASA itself is. It is not a money making enterprise nor does it seek to create a profit from its venture. The first and most important reason for the existence of NASA is research and exploration. It is because of the fact that private enterprises do not primarily have these as their goals that NASA exists.

NASA carries out experiments which other companies would see no profit in. Virgin shooting ships into space isn't doing it for oceanography research or to see how plants react to different space temperatures and conditions. They are doing it for a profit. NASA is doing it purely for the scientific aspect.
 
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I view NASA like any corporation. Recent corporate management indicates that large, massive monstrosities are too unwieldy to navigate the 21st Century. NASA incorporates everything from customer relations to shooting rockets into outer space, and everything in between. That's unprofitable; it is trying to do so many things 'well,' it is not doing anything.

It was a great idea when there was no space industry for NASA to use. Now, when America has the Virgin Group shooting spaceships all on their own; when America has countless R&D projects researching everything about space (and beyond); when America has countless space PR organizations (like you fellows). There is no reason to have some atrophying bureaucracy cum research unit cum regulatory agency.

Break it up, make it more specialized, or make the pieces more specialized. I suggest that one makes it an EPA of space, but in any event: keeping it the way it is will be bad medicine for the future.

NASA isn't a corporation, and it's not supposed to be profitable in a monetary sense.

Although I agree that they need to gain a tighter focus on research and also get out of the way of teh private sector, but this has been happening lately.
 
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NASA isn't a corporation, and it's not supposed to be profitable in a monetary sense.

Although I agree that they need to gain a tighter focus on research and also get out of the way of teh private sector, but this has been happening lately.

I'm not talking profit in a monetary sense, but profit as in productivity; happiness, even.

I'm just worried they will become too cozy with private industry if it continues to play around with spaceflight. It's bad at throwing things in space, and with all infant industries, it needs to avoid a policy "Iron Triangle," before a Three Mile Island version of spaceflight.
 
I'm not talking profit in a monetary sense, but profit as in productivity; happiness, even.

I'm just worried they will become too cozy with private industry if it continues to play around with spaceflight. It's bad at throwing things in space, and with all infant industries, it needs to avoid a policy "Iron Triangle," before a Three Mile Island version of spaceflight.
Like the World hasn't clutter space with junk already---what goes up-----:cool:
 
So tell me, is space cluttered with NASA's satellites.... or those from the private industry you champion?
I think the Whole world has emptied it's ash trays in space, just like we do here on Mother Earth. "just leave it, somebody else will clean it up"---Nothin should go up there, that doesnt have a sound plan for it's safe return. ---we learn slow it seems, and repeat our mistakes, over and over again.
 
Depends what they are using it for.

BAMCIS!

That is the perfect answer. But, the problem is that a vast portion of "military" money goes to contractors within the Defense Industry and they prefer to build technological toys that have nothing to do with any real world practical threat in which the military would use them. Oh, but these master toy builders aren't to blame solely. We have politicians who's real crime is that they are stupid beyond belief...

* The most appalling example would be the F/A-22. This is an Air Force jet fighter toy designed to fight the Soviet Union. After the Berlin Wall came down, arming it with a few smart bombs in order to support ground troops kept the program alive. To this day....never used. Enough on that I think.

* Boeing was providing a new generation of refeuling aircraft to the Air Force and this was based on outright fraud. A senior civilian offocial on the Air Force staff, Darlene Druyun, sweetened the already inflated contract by several billion dollars for the promise of a $250,000-a-year retirement job, along with jobs for her relatives. Secretary of the Air Force James Roche directed a campaign to mislead other officials and Congress into his part of the contract deal and he later resigned. One Boeing executive, Michael M. Sears, went to prison for hyis role. In the end, it was discovered that the contract was about helping Boeing keep an unprofitable assembly line open. The last thing the Air Force needed was new refuleing aircrafts. And the reason this was caught was because a few senators (John MCCain,Phil Gramm, John Warner, Joseph Lieberman, and others) refused to be swayed like the other idiot senators who swallowed hook, line, and sinker.

To it's credit the U.S. Army cancelled the Comanche attack helicopter as unaffordable. Besides being unaffordable, with the Apache flying high and hard in support of ground troops in the Army and the Marine Corps, who needs the Comanche? The Army leadership behaved responsibly. And even more to their credit they stuck to their guns even after the tearful contractors lobbeyed and convinced select politicians that the Army "needed" it.

The Marines have always been excallent stewards of tax payer dollars and the Coast Guard does more with less than any comparible organization. Deprived of a Soviet enemy, the Navy and the Air Force question their purpose and their doctrines. The Navy has it's place in the "War on Terror" because they are far more than ocean bound. But the Air Force has become an organization of tinkerers and experimentation for technological toys.

When people jump on the band wagon and ask why our troops have no body armor or why their NBC suits have duct tape on them to seal them or why our UAV video feeds are lacking in cryptology, they don't bother to scratch the surface. There is plenty of money. The problem is that they see no money to be made in investing in the troop. Politicians are constantly fooled by the contractor's line "nothing is too good for our troops." This is certainly true, but what they give us is not good enough. Our enemy spends a hundred bucks to produce a media saavy IED and rides donkeys in the mountains. We spend billions on an F/A-22 (and don't use it) and begrudgingly hand out body armor to expendable troops.

What you stated..."it depends on what they are using it for"...seems to stop at the Senate door to the delight of Generals and Admirals who seek future positions in the Defense Industry. And this isn't a problem we've always had. This is a problem created after the Cold War ended and we lost that comfortable Red threat as an enemy. The next threat, "China," was on the lips of every defense contractor ever since. The habit that Washington and the Defense Industry had gotten themselves into because of this "next threat" had been a focus on building toys to fight a war they want us to fight rather than focusing on the wars our troops are fighting.

Horrible waste of money.
 
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BAMCIS!

That is the perfect answer. But, the problem is that a vast portion of "military" money goes to contractors within the Defense Industry and they prefer to build technological toys that have nothing to do with any real world practical threat in which the military would use them. Oh, but these master toy builders aren't to blame solely. We have politicians who's real crime is that they are stupid beyond belief...

* The most appalling example would be the F/A-22. This is an Air Force jet fighter toy designed to fight the Soviet Union. After the Berlin Wall came down, arming it with a few smart bombs in order to support ground troops kept the program alive. To this day....never used. Enough on that I think.

* Boeing was providing a new generation of refeuling aircraft to the Air Force and this was based on outright fraud. A senior civilian offocial on the Air Force staff, Darlene Druyun, sweetened the already inflated contract by several billion dollars for the promise of a $250,000-a-year retirement job, along with jobs for her relatives. Secretary of the Air Force James Roche directed a campaign to mislead other officials and Congress into his part of the contract deal and he later resigned. One Boeing executive, Michael M. Sears, went to prison for hyis role. In the end, it was discovered that the contract was about helping Boeing keep an unprofitable assembly line open. The last thing the Air Force needed was new refuleing aircrafts. And the reason this was caught was because a few senators (John MCCain,Phil Gramm, John Warner, Joseph Lieberman, and others) refused to be swayed like the other idiot senators who swallowed hook, line, and sinker.

To it's credit the U.S. Army cancelled the Comanche attack helicopter as unaffordable. Besides being unaffordable, with the Apache flying high and hard in support of ground troops in the Army and the Marine Corps, who needs the Comanche? The Army leadership behaved responsibly. And even more to their credit they stuck to their guns even after the tearful contractors lobbeyed and convinced select politicians that the Army "needed" it.

The Marines have always been excallent stewards of tax payer dollars and the Coast Guard does more with less than any comparible organization. Deprived of a Soviet enemy, the Navy and the Air Force question their purpose and their doctrines. The Navy has it's place in the "War on Terror" because they are far more than ocean bound. But the Air Force has become an organization of tinkerers and experimentation for technological toys.

When people jump on the band wagon and ask why our troops have no body armor or why their NBC suits have duct tape on them to seal them or why our UAV video feeds are lacking in cryptology, they don't bother to scratch the surface. There is plenty of money. The problem is that they see no money to be made in investing in the troop. Politicians are constantly fooled by the contractor's line "nothing is too good for our troops." This is certainly true, but what they give us is not good enough. Our enemy spends a hundred bucks to produce a media saavy IED and rides donkeys in the mountains. We spend billions on an F/A-22 (and don't use it) and begrudgingly hand out body armor to expendable troops.

What you stated..."it depends on what they are using it for"...seems to stop at the Senate door to the delight of Generals and Admirals who seek future positions in the Defense Industry. And this isn't a problem we've always had. This is a problem created after the Cold War ended and we lost that comfortable Red threat as an enemy. The next threat, "China," was on the lips of every defense contractor ever since. The habit that Washington and the Defense Industry had gotten themselves into because of this "next threat" had been a focus on building toys to fight a war they want us to fight rather than focusing on the wars our troops are fighting.

Horrible waste of money.
thank you for sharing that useful information--It is a shame.
 
thank you for sharing that useful information--It is a shame.

It is. But what this means is that we have to do better. Those that control the purse strings need to grow smarter than the capitalists who are only seeking to turn a dime. Ending the Defense Industry would be a mistake. We have to acknowledge that that body armor and so much other useful equipment like the communications technology, smart bomb weapons systems, GLINT tape, field medical equipment, and air support systems, came from the Defense Industry as well.

Killing the NASA program would also be a mistake. Like the Defense Industry, greater oversight is needed.
 
Everything has just gotten bloated, and out of control. ---We need a leaner meaner system, that has it's priorities straight. take car of the Guys on the ground, if they just have to be there, and give them the best Equipment. Better rifles, better Armour. It's out there, and we all know it.
 
Everything has just gotten bloated, and out of control. ---We need a leaner meaner system, that has it's priorities straight. take car of the Guys on the ground, if they just have to be there, and give them the best Equipment. Better rifles, better Armour. It's out there, and we all know it.

It's the same for NASA. It has its very real uses.
 
I think the Whole world has emptied it's ash trays in space, just like we do here on Mother Earth. "just leave it, somebody else will clean it up"

Since no intelligent beings live in deep space or on any of the worlds NASA has explored, who cares? For whom do you want to keep outer space a pristine nature reserve, and why?

Skateguy said:
Nothin should go up there, that doesnt have a sound plan for it's safe return.

Ridiculously impractical. You just said that the reason you wanted to phase NASA out is because you believe the private sector can pick up the slack. If that is the case, then your phony environmentalism argument doesn't make any sense as you don't actually want to reduce the amount of space junk, you just want to change its source.

Skateguy said:
we learn slow it seems, and repeat our mistakes, over and over again.

Can you please explain how humans, the Earth, or any other entity is better off if we don't learn about Titan's atmosphere with probes? And while you're at it, could you please explain how it's profitable for the private sector to spend money learning about such things?
 
Outlived, maybe not, outspent, definitely.
The ROI is really bad....
 
Like the World hasn't clutter space with junk already---what goes up-----:cool:

I think the Whole world has emptied it's ash trays in space, just like we do here on Mother Earth. "just leave it, somebody else will clean it up"---Nothin should go up there, that doesnt have a sound plan for it's safe return. ---we learn slow it seems, and repeat our mistakes, over and over again.

They do have plans for any satillite that is put up there. One of the major plans is if the satillite is small enough to just let its orbit decay and burn up on re-entry. No piece of the satillite will reach the ground because of it.

If the satillite is too big then they shoot it to pieces which will burn up on re-entry.

No one is ever hurt by either of these plans. If you believe that they have then I would challenge you to provide such evidence.
 
To Skate:

Putting NASA’s budget in perspective

Also you apparently did not read one of the links that I provided earilier on in this thread. Since you are apparently "concerned" with the money spent on NASA you should become aware of this....

Hubbard also pointed out that NASA engineers have worked "hand-in-hand" with businesses and universities to help develop a variety of technologies, including microelectromechanical systems, supercomputers and microcomputers, software and microprocessors.

Overall, Hubbard added, $7 or $8 in goods and services are produced for every $1 that the government invests in NASA.

IE NASA more than pays for itself.

I'll let you figure out which of the links that I provided earlier this tidbit came from.
 
And how are you measuring ROI? How do you quantify scientific knowledge in dollar terms?

We have known for decades that there are no habitable planets within many, many light years of earth, and that man cannot live in space long enough to get to even the nearest uninhabitable planet. So, why do we still pursue the impossible with so much money? should we bankrupt the nation for useless knowledge?
 
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