View Poll Results: The Senate & House will successfully pass a reconciled Healthcare bill?

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    10 26.32%
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Thread: The Senate & House will successfully pass a reconciled Healthcare bill

  1. #31
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    Re: The Senate & House will successfully pass a reconciled Healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    "Conservative" says it all
    Yes, I do want to "conserve" America not turn it into a soviet state. I unashamedly admit to that bias. I believe in the free market system; not statism, collectivism and eventually full blown communism. These are all failures but as always, "we'll get it right this time." How many times do we hear that before someone figures it out? Communism doesn't work.

    "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs."


    Explain to me that this is not the road we are traveling. Please.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

  2. #32
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    Re: The Senate & House will successfully pass a reconciled Healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    Why do people say the public option is still in the bill? Its not, look it up.

    Honestly this bill is not much change, plus many things do not begin until 2014.
    But the taxes will begin almost immediately and soon thereafter the young people who can't pay or won't pay for insurance will have be rounded up and put into jail. There just won't be any benefits. That's the gimmick they put in there to show it was self-sustaining. It is one huge fraud.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

  3. #33
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    Re: The Senate & House will successfully pass a reconciled Healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Mule View Post
    But the taxes will begin almost immediately and soon thereafter the young people who can't pay or won't pay for insurance will have be rounded up and put into jail. There just won't be any benefits. That's the gimmick they put in there to show it was self-sustaining. It is one huge fraud.
    That's simply false. I know fear mongering is a helpful tactic, but what you bemoan here won't happen.

    What was that you said about wild generalizations you can't support? I guess I should thank you for showing everyone what one looks like.

  4. #34
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    Re: The Senate & House will successfully pass a reconciled Healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Mule View Post
    But the taxes will begin almost immediately and soon thereafter the young people who can't pay or won't pay for insurance will have be rounded up and put into jail. There just won't be any benefits. That's the gimmick they put in there to show it was self-sustaining. It is one huge fraud.
    First of all, I just realized you live like an hour and a half away from me. (unimportant)

    Second of all, I was always told on the news that the jailing is just a rumor. Also since the bill will essentially decrease the deficit by billions why would they tax?


  5. #35
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    Re: The Senate & House will successfully pass a reconciled Healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    Why do people say the public option is still in the bill? Its not, look it up.

    Honestly this bill is not much change, plus many things do not begin until 2014.
    Anyone ever notice that alot of the bills that has passed won't really begin until after the 2012 elections? Wonder why that is....
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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  6. #36
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    Re: The Senate & House will successfully pass a reconciled Healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    That's simply false. I know fear mongering is a helpful tactic, but what you bemoan here won't happen.

    What was that you said about wild generalizations you can't support? I guess I should thank you for showing everyone what one looks like.
    What won't happen? The higher taxes or the jailing of young people for refusing to buy health insurance?
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

  7. #37
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    Re: The Senate & House will successfully pass a reconciled Healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    First of all, I just realized you live like an hour and a half away from me. (unimportant)

    Second of all, I was always told on the news that the jailing is just a rumor. Also since the bill will essentially decrease the deficit by billions why would they tax?
    Since the bill has to be yet reconciled this is what is actually in Pelosicare:

    “H.R. 3962 provides that an individual (or a husband and wife in the case of a joint return) who does not, at any time during the taxable year, maintain acceptable health insurance coverage for himself or herself and each of his or her qualifying children is subject to an additional tax.” [page 1]

    - - - - - - - - - -

    “If the government determines that the taxpayer’s unpaid tax liability results from willful behavior, the following penalties could apply…” [page 2]

    - - - - - - - - - -


    “Criminal penalties

    Prosecution is authorized under the Code for a variety of offenses. Depending on the level of the noncompliance, the following penalties could apply to an individual:

    • Section 7203 – misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.

    • Section 7201 – felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years.”
    [page 3]

    When confronted with this same issue during its consideration of a similar individual mandate tax, the Senate Finance Committee worked on a bipartisan basis to include language in its bill that shielded Americans from civil and criminal penalties. The Pelosi bill, however, contains no similar language protecting American citizens from civil and criminal tax penalties that could include a $250,000 fine and five years in jail.

    “The Senate Finance Committee had the good sense to eliminate the extreme penalty of incarceration. Speaker Pelosi’s decision to leave in the jail time provision is a threat to every family who cannot afford the $15,000 premium her plan creates. Fortunately, Republicans have an alternative that will lower health insurance costs without raising taxes or cutting Medicare,” said Camp.

    According to the Congressional Budget Office the lowest cost family non-group plan under the Speaker’s bill would cost $15,000 in 2016.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    If the health insurance is not purchased this will inevitably be passed onto the "system" through higher taxes or higher medical care costs. One can quibble over the term "taxes" but the effect is exactly the same. The average schmuck will get shafted as usual.

    I could have written a health bill on one sheet of paper that would have solved all of the health system's problems that required no additional taxes nor jailing of people. There is no secret what the problem is; it is the payment of costs by third parties which is the origin of this entire problem. Until transparency is part of the solution we will be rearguing this time and again or until we are bankrupt as a nation. This was a self-inflicted wound.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

  8. #38
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    Re: The Senate & House will successfully pass a reconciled Healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Is this post suppose to be serious?

    This kind of foolishness is becoming somewhat fascinating to me. At first glance, I am pretty sure he's not actually stupid enough to believe it himself. But, that leaves only one possibility really: That there are readers on here that he thinks ARE stupid enough to believe it, since that is the only reason to be spouting such nonsense.

    But, thinking that the people here are that stupid is not only insulting, but pretty stupid in and of itself. So, that leads me back into a falsifying of my original statement (which was that he isn't stupid enough to believe it himself).

    Quite a paradox, really.

    Can we please make it an infractable offense to post things that are so insulting to the intelligence of people on this forum that they are considered to have insulted everyone? Like maybe a perma bannable offense?

  9. #39
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    Re: The Senate & House will successfully pass a reconciled Healthcare bill

    Morris provides the basic essentials of this health care monstrosity broken down into its salient components. Anyone should be able to understand how they will be adversely affected. Be carefule of what you wish for; you just might get it.
    ============================================

    MORRIS: No gain, plenty of pain, on Day One

    By DICK MORRIS | Posted: Friday, December 25, 2009 12:00 am

    Obama's health care bill, the poisoned Kool-Aid making its way through the Senate, will not confer any of its supposed benefits on Americans until 2013. But they will find themselves chafing at its restrictions and paying its taxes immediately after the law takes effect.

    This odd juxtaposition of "suffer now, benefit later" is the byproduct of the administration's sleight of hand in specifying 10 years' worth of cuts and taxes in the legislation, but deferring its benefits for the first four years. By comparing six years of spending with 10 years of taxing, it managed to appear deficit-neutral under the rules of the Congressional Budget Office. In fact, the annual revenues fall far short of covering any single year's worth of spending, adding to the deficit for each of the last six years over the next 10 ---- but, viewing the decade as a whole, it appears deficit-neutral.

    Yet the political price is hardly neutral. Democrats who misguidedly vote for this monstrosity will face immediate political repercussions.

    The harshest of these backlashes will come from the elderly, who will face the rationing immediately.

    The first "no" will hit the 10 million elderly who now rely on Medicare Advantage to pay for the care Medicare itself does not cover. In a payoff to AARP, Obama gutted this program in his bill, ending over $100 billion in federal premium subsidies. These 10 million voters will get the grim news that their premiums are going up and their benefits dropping early in 2010. The goal, of course, is to force them to drop Medicare Advantage and sign up, instead, for Medi-gap insurance ---- offered, not coincidentally, by the AARP ---- which provides less coverage at higher cost.

    Young people without health insurance can expect to start writing $750 annual checks to Washington to pay the fines written into the bill. (And, after the Conference Committee finishes its work, the fines may be higher.)

    All Americans will soon find their insurance premiums rising as a result of the bill. The young uninsured will not buy policies. Why should they? Why not just pay the $750 fine each year? Why pay between 2 percent and 10 percent of their household income before subsidies kick in? It makes no financial sense for anyone making more than $30,000 to pay for coverage. (And most of those under that threshold will be covered by Medicaid, not by private insurance.)

    There is no reason for the young to buy private insurance. The legislation requires that health insurers take all comers and not raise rates based on pre-existing conditions. So the young can get coverage when they need it, having only paid $750 per year beforehand.

    The difference in cost will, of course, be borne by families throughout America, who will see their health insurance premiums increase. President Obama and his Democratic rubber stamps may appreciate that they are not raising taxes on the middle class, just raising mandatory health insurance premiums, but the distinction is likely to be lost on swing voters.

    From now on, any increase in health insurance premiums will become the political responsibility of the Obama administration. As Gen. Colin Powell once said of Iraq, "You break it, you own it."
    ...

    (Snip)

    MORRIS: No gain, plenty of pain, on Day One
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

  10. #40
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    Re: The Senate & House will successfully pass a reconciled Healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    This kind of foolishness is becoming somewhat fascinating to me. At first glance, I am pretty sure he's not actually stupid enough to believe it himself. But, that leaves only one possibility really: That there are readers on here that he thinks ARE stupid enough to believe it, since that is the only reason to be spouting such nonsense.

    But, thinking that the people here are that stupid is not only insulting, but pretty stupid in and of itself. So, that leads me back into a falsifying of my original statement (which was that he isn't stupid enough to believe it himself).

    Quite a paradox, really.

    Can we please make it an infractable offense to post things that are so insulting to the intelligence of people on this forum that they are considered to have insulted everyone? Like maybe a perma bannable offense?
    Isn't that in some ways the method the Soviets used to do with their dissidents? Shoot them in the back of the head and send the bill for the bullet to their surviving relatives? Banning people forever because you don't agree with their views? How unAmerican is that? I thought we fought a Revolution because we didn't believe in being forced to do things that we disagreed with? I suppose you would have banned Thomas Paine from publishing his works such as "Common Sense." He was unpopular even back then because he said some pretty outrageous things but he was one of the sparks of our Revolution that brought the free America we have enjoyed until the Age of Obama.

    Common Sense - Google Books
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

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