View Poll Results: Do you think that Rightist are going to simply submit to Leftist Schemes?I

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  • I'm on the Left and think that the Right will submit

    0 0%
  • I'm on the Left and think that the Right will rebel

    1 11.11%
  • I'm on the Right and think that the Right will submit

    0 0%
  • I'm on the Right and think that the Right will rebel

    5 55.56%
  • I'm in the Middle and think that the Right will submit

    1 11.11%
  • I'm in the Middle and think that the Right will rebel

    0 0%
  • I'm in the Middle and think what I'm told

    2 22.22%
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Thread: Is the Progressive Movement laboring under a misconception?

  1. #11
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    Re: Is the Progressive Movement laboring under a misconception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    Please re-read the O. P., slowly. Take your time, we'll wait.
    Oh, I didn't see that you edited it.

    It still doesn't really clarify what you mean by "submit" or "rebel" to it, or on what timeline you're talking about. Do I think that the Senate Republicans are going to raise up an army to fight a civil war over cap-and-trade? No. Do I expect any Senate Republicans to vote for it? No.

    In the long term, most Republicans will accept the health care bill (assuming it passes), just as they do with medicare and social security now. Cap-and-trade doesn't have much hope for actually passing, so I wouldn't expect them to accept it. As for immigration amnesty, I'm particularly confused by what "submitting" to it would entail. If a law is passed giving illegal immigrants amnesty (as it was during the 1980s), what other choice would they have but to submit to it? You can't take it back once it has been issued.

    I agree with those who say this poll is very poorly worded. I'm really not sure what exactly you're asking.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 12-20-09 at 10:36 PM.
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  2. #12
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    Re: Is the Progressive Movement laboring under a misconception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    Thank you. I am always gratified when people are willing to confess their glaring cognitive and ethical weaknesses.
    That was neither a cognitive nor ethical weakness. I think what us on the left support is ethical, and I think doing what we think is right is appropriate. Nothing wrong with that. It's ironic that you would misunderstand while complaining about a cognitive flaw, and complain that doing what we think is right is unethical.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  3. #13
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    Re: Is the Progressive Movement laboring under a misconception?

    No "other" option = fail

    But in the interest of playing along I will answer:

    I think both sides expect irrational things out of the other side. End.

  4. #14
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    Re: Is the Progressive Movement laboring under a misconception?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    I think Most of us understand that the "conservatives" of today...bear little resemblance to the conservative idealogy of Goldwater.
    Because they're not as extreme as Goldwater? (Don't all want to repeal Social Security, Medicare, welfare, etc.)

    Or because they disagree on two issues? (Gay marriage and abortion)

  5. #15
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    Re: Is the Progressive Movement laboring under a misconception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Because they're not as extreme as Goldwater? (Don't all want to repeal Social Security, Medicare, welfare, etc.)

    Or because they disagree on two issues? (Gay marriage and abortion)
    I'd vote for Goldwater today, but most Republicans wouldn't.

  6. #16
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    Re: Is the Progressive Movement laboring under a misconception?

    Submit, rebel, do what you are told. Some lousy choices
    This is not me!
    And I hope this is not the way of mankind.
    Yes, mankind, not "person-kind" !
    You may label me as a progressive, but do not use super-glue.
    Both "gay marriage" and abortion I find disgusting, but, as most people want this, and intelligent/pragmatic man will not stand in the way.
    Legal abortion will fade away when we become civilized.
    When we are more tolerant, "gay" marriage will be accepted and the homosexuals will not feel bad about it. And religion will "grow up" and accept this as a minor glitch, nothing more....
    Happy Holidays
    Adrian
    Last edited by earthworm; 12-25-09 at 12:48 PM.

  7. #17
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    Re: Is the Progressive Movement laboring under a misconception?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    I'd vote for Goldwater today
    Based on what I've seen from you so far - which, granted, isn't much - I find it kind of hard to believe that you would vote for him if you fully understood his positions.

    but most Republicans wouldn't.
    Mostly because he was so much further to the right than they are. Today, saying that you want to eliminate Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, and Social Security will not carry you very far politically. Being more accepting of the possibility of using nuclear weapons probably wouldn't help either. These positions would probably do him a lot more harm today than his stances on abortion and gay marriage, which are the only two issues where he took a more liberal position.

  8. #18
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    Re: Is the Progressive Movement laboring under a misconception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Because they're not as extreme as Goldwater? (Don't all want to repeal Social Security, Medicare, welfare, etc.)

    Or because they disagree on two issues? (Gay marriage and abortion)
    Goldwater would have opposed the Iraq War, Afghanistan War, Gulf War etc. He also would have opposed faith based initiatives or any intrusion of religion into government matters. It is a lot more than 'two issues'. A lot of them are issues on which you still find major support from the right wing in this country.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 12-25-09 at 06:01 PM.
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  9. #19
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    Re: Is the Progressive Movement laboring under a misconception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Goldwater would have opposed the Iraq War, Afghanistan War, Gulf War etc.
    That is questionable. He was a very hard-liner on Vietnam, I don't see why he wouldn't be the same on Iraq or Afghanistan.

    He also would have opposed faith based initiatives or any intrusion of religion into government matters.
    OK, but unless you count abortion and gay marriage (which I don't) there aren't really many big issues which involve intrusion of religion into government.

  10. #20
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    Re: Is the Progressive Movement laboring under a misconception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    That is questionable. He was a very hard-liner on Vietnam, I don't see why he wouldn't be the same on Iraq or Afghanistan.
    Goldwater wasn't a hardliner on Vietnam. He was a hardliner on the spread of communism. There is a distinct difference.

    OK, but unless you count abortion and gay marriage (which I don't) there aren't really many big issues which involve intrusion of religion into government.
    ORLY? The last administration is proof that religion, in particular far right social conservative christianity is doing its best to infiltrate the high ranks of government. From aides to people like Karl Rove to advisors to the U.S. President. Then you have the many Republican congressmen trying to reintroduce prayer in U.S. schools. Followed by the many Christians who go on rallies whenever they are told that nobody needs to see the 10 commandments in front of a secular court room. These are all huge issues that pop up every year. They might not be as consistent in the attention of the public but they are issues which people spend millions of dollars battling in court over and suing for.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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