View Poll Results: Should a person or that person's family be able to sell their organs post mortem?

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Thread: Should you or your family members be able to sell your organs post mortem?

  1. #51
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    Re: Should you or your family members be able to sell your organs post mortem?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    This is why donation should be mandatory. The dead have no use for their organs after they are dead. The dead have no rights, either. Make donation mandatory and supply goes way up.
    did you know Mon Capitan that the Spanish, if they lose a limb before they die it is kept for the burial.

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    Re: Should you or your family members be able to sell your organs post mortem?

    Quote Originally Posted by B L Zeebub View Post
    did you know Mon Capitan that the Spanish, if they lose a limb before they die it is kept for the burial.
    No, I didn't. In know in the Civil War, some general buried his amputated leg and had a tombstone put on it.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
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    Re: Should you or your family members be able to sell your organs post mortem?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    No, I didn't. In know in the Civil War, some general buried his amputated leg and had a tombstone put on it.
    why, was it twitching?

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    Re: Should you or your family members be able to sell your organs post mortem?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    No, I didn't. In know in the Civil War, some general buried his amputated leg and had a tombstone put on it.
    Stonewall Jackson was buried in one place, his amputated arm in another.

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    Re: Should you or your family members be able to sell your organs post mortem?

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    Stonewall Jackson was buried in one place, his amputated arm in another.
    I know, but it wasn't him. Happened at Gettysburg. Can't remember the General's name. I think he was on the Union side.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Should you or your family members be able to sell your organs post mortem?

    Quote Originally Posted by B L Zeebub View Post
    why, was it twitching?
    It may have been. I wasn't there.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  7. #57
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    Re: Should you or your family members be able to sell your organs post mortem?

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Legalizing it would increase the likelihood of more people who would turn to organs for monetary gain, through corrupt channels. You can't use standard supply and demand when looking at organs. They have an extremely short viability rate outside of the body, which means tracking the total supply at any given time would be difficult;
    All the more reason to legalize the trade. Hospitals could certainly protect the organs (and match buyers/sellers) much more easily than, say, some guy with an ice chest in his van.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius
    secondly, organs in peoples' bodies do not count as part of the supply, because willingness to donate and be actively doing so would have to be considered.
    Normally things count as part of the supply even if the owner isn't particularly inclined to sell them (unless of course it's something that CAN'T be sold or if the owner is unwilling to sell at ANY price).

    In any case, a legal organ market will still increase the supply, because presumably SOME people will be willing to sell who were not willing to donate. And demand will stay pretty much the same, as there will still be the same number of people who need a new organ.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius
    Given that, determining price would be at the whim of the seller, and likely in accordance with the desperation of the individual. It would be market rape, not market "forces".
    Not if the market was broad enough. If there are 1000 people in your geographical area who need an organ, and 1000 people willing to donate them, the price will eventually settle at the market equilibrium rather than the whim of any individual seller.

    (Granted, that's a bit of an oversimplification since not every seller will be compatible with every buyer, but the general principle applies.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius
    Finally, it doesn't create any new safe guards placed on the sourcing of organs. Okay, so you could make it mandatory that certification is needed before harvesting organs, to ensure consent, etc. But all that would do is facilitate the continued existence of the black market, which has no desire to do that.
    But like I told Jerry, if the black market dealers don't want to participate in the legal organ market anyway, then they aren't really relevant to the discussion.

    Besides, who would their customers be? While I can understand the incentive for the dealers themselves to not want to participate, why would any potential BUYER choose to buy from them instead of a reputable hospital if they had the choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius
    But it does so in a way that is corruption-free, and is controlled by medical professionals. Removing the organ itself can lead to life-threatening complications from the donor, let alone transplanting it and avoiding infection and rejection. Legalization would not ensure safe practices, it would simply incentivize the selling of organs through all means, fair and nefarious alike.
    There's already an incentive to sell them through nefarious means. This would simply create a fair-means channel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius
    Then the medical system should be lobbied in a democratic way to refine its standards, such as increasing availability to people in certain age groups, and by educating the public on organ donation.
    It's been my experience that public education campaigns almost never work as well as a cash incentive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius
    I am just thinking about the victims if we openly allow organ selling. Legalization is not the solution. People will always find ways to profit more.

    There is virtually no way to track organ sourcing - post-mortem or living donor - which is the whole point of why selling organs remains illegal. By making it legal we are basically giving the organ thieves the okay to bring their business out into the open.
    Why isn't there any way to track organ sourcing? Bob decides to sell his kidney and goes to St. Mary's Hospital. The doctor extracts it, carefully labels where/who it came from and includes all the relevant medical data. It is then sent on its merry way to whomever the buyer is. The doctor at that hospital has access to all of the information, and can call Bob's doctor if he has any questions about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius
    People who are extorted seldom run to the law. What if you were asked to give a kidney to repay a huge loan you owed? To keep your house? To immigrate to a better country? Yes, these things could happen already, by legalization means we are saying it's okay.
    Not if there were laws making it illegal for creditors to require/"encourage" debtors to sell organs to repay debt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius
    Medicine is about healing, not helping people make ends meet in such a grotesque way.
    This would prevent the deaths of thousands of people each year on organ waitlists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius
    I can think of one example that contradicts this, which is some blood banks give you money for donating your blood, but that's because of shortages in some areas.
    There is a nationwide shortage of kidneys.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius
    Besides, blood regenerates within less than a day.
    What's the difference if someone earns $25 for selling blood plasma twice a week over the course of 6 years, or earns $15,000 for selling a kidney once in their life? Neither the blood plasma nor the extra kidney is doing them any good, but they could use the cash and someone else could use the plasma/kidney.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius
    As I said earlier, medical institutions can't possibly track the source if it's coming from outside of their walls. Hell, even sometimes in their walls, there is abuse:
    I really don't see why it would be so difficult to track where it was coming from, if hospitals were required to label them.

    Those horror stories from India and Brazil have less to do with an organ market, and more to do with weakly enforced standards in hospitals and contract law. Any American hospital doing such things would be shut down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius
    Even though it can still happen in areas with low enforcement, at least keeping it within the confines of medical diagnostic criteria tends to make it fair, balanced, and monitored. Once you put a price tag on the organs, that places an unfair burden on doctors to facilitate not only a life saving transaction, but a financial transaction.
    The doctor's responsibility is exactly the same whether it's being donated or sold: Withdraw the organ, store it safely, and/or put it in the person who needs it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius
    I equate this to prostitution being legalized in Amsterdam. Yes, you can hire a hooker, but what if you have a special interest in children? It's still illegal there, but the black market services it. Should we make that legal too, since the demand is there? At some point the morals of society have to step in and say no, even if money is to be made.
    A couple of key distinctions:

    1. There is no clear victim from an organ sale transaction, whereas there is a clear victim in child prostitution.

    2. The black market for child prostitution mostly consists of buyers whose needs cannot be met in Amsterdam's legal prostitution market. There is no analogous market for organ buyers, whose needs could not be met by a reputable hospital. Why would anyone choose the black market over the legal market in that case?
    Last edited by Kandahar; 12-21-09 at 01:57 AM.
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    Re: Should you or your family members be able to sell your organs post mortem?

    I am still searching for Napoleons penis, its my holy grail.

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    Re: Should you or your family members be able to sell your organs post mortem?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I know, but it wasn't him. Happened at Gettysburg. Can't remember the General's name. I think he was on the Union side.
    Well I figured it wasn't him since you were speaking of a leg.

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    Re: Should you or your family members be able to sell your organs post mortem?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    It may have been. I wasn't there.
    not even a part of you, metaphorically of course

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