View Poll Results: Should a person or that person's family be able to sell their organs post mortem?

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Thread: Should you or your family members be able to sell your organs post mortem?

  1. #21
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    Re: Should you or your family members be able to sell your organs post mortem?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    No, it creates an underground organ market as the demand far surpasses the supply. What you end up with are people killed for their organs.
    What if organ sellers were required to go to a licensed hospital, and the doctors were required to conduct an interview with the seller to satisfy themselves that the seller was acting on his own free will? And what if buyers were only allowed to buy organs that had been through this screening process?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry
    Yes, it's your body, but your choice has far-reaching overwhelmingly negative and harmful affects on others, and so your choice should be restricted.
    You know what else has overwhelmingly negative and harmful affects? Being dead because you couldn't get a kidney, even though you were willing to pay for one and there were people willing to sell you one.

    There are nearly 300 million unused kidneys in this country, yet 4,000 Americans die each year while waiting for a kidney. Something is horrendously wrong with that picture.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 12-20-09 at 11:17 PM.
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  2. #22
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    Re: Should you or your family members be able to sell your organs post mortem?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    What if organ sellers were required to-
    -it wouldn't matter.

    Law breakers don't follow laws.

    That's why gun control only disarms law-abiding citizens, for example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    You know what else has overwhelmingly negative and harmful affects? Being dead because you couldn't get a kidney, even though you were willing to pay for one and there were people willing to sell you one.
    Just like being dead because someone wanted to sell your kidneys, sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    There are nearly 300 million unused kidneys in this country, yet 4,000 Americans die each year while waiting for a kidney. Something is horrendously wrong with that picture.
    Imo a viable solution to that problem must continue to prohibit the sale of organs.

  3. #23
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    Re: Should you or your family members be able to sell your organs post mortem?

    No, it creates an underground organ market as the demand far surpasses the supply. What you end up with are people killed for their organs.
    That market is not created by legalizing the process. Black markets exist where demand does, and preventing legal supply will make demand even worse. Considering that it often is a life or death situation in getting the organ, demand is impossible to remove.

    Provided that safeguards are taken to insure that organs only come from willing donors, a legal system of organ sales would only decrease illegal activities by meeting some of the demand.

    I'd still have donations be free if possible, but if money is required to make it happen, its better than having no supply at all.

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    Re: Should you or your family members be able to sell your organs post mortem?

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    That market is not created by legalizing the process. Black markets exist where demand does, and preventing legal supply will make demand even worse. Considering that it often is a life or death situation in getting the organ, demand is impossible to remove.

    Provided that safeguards are taken to insure that organs only come from willing donors, a legal system of organ sales would only decrease illegal activities by meeting some of the demand.

    I'd still have donations be free if possible, but if money is required to make it happen, its better than having no supply at all.
    You don't want the supply you would create.

  5. #25
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    Re: Should you or your family members be able to sell your organs post mortem?

    You don't want the supply you would create.
    Why not? I am sure that plenty of folks would rather have the option of paying for an organ than having no choice at all.

  6. #26
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    Re: Should you or your family members be able to sell your organs post mortem?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    -it wouldn't matter.

    Law breakers don't follow laws.

    That's why gun control only disarms law-abiding citizens, for example.
    Then the lawbreakers (i.e. those who buy/sell organs through some unapproved channel) would be prosecuted, just as they are now. So how is this a valid argument against organ sales through responsible channels such as hospitals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry
    Just like being dead because someone wanted to sell your kidneys, sure.
    Since neither I nor anyone else on this thread has advocated making it legal to buy organs out of an ice chest in the back of some guy's van, this doesn't make any sense.
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    Re: Should you or your family members be able to sell your organs post mortem?

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Why not? I am sure that plenty of folks would rather have the option of paying for an organ than having no choice at all.
    You wouldn't be able to have the required controles for the organs. Even if you could account for where they came from (which you wouldn't), and even if there were no corruption (which there would be), America does not have enough doctors to fly around and inspect/qualify/transport/implant organs on a mass scale.

    Isrial has a surplus of doctors (which is also the key reason why socialized health-care works over there, and will fail over here), so maybe such a program could be attempted there. America, however, will need to expend the ranks of it's surgeons before it could hope to execute a successful organ market.

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    Re: Should you or your family members be able to sell your organs post mortem?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Then the lawbreakers (i.e. those who buy/sell organs through some unapproved channel) would be prosecuted, just as they are now. So how is this a valid argument against organ sales through responsible channels such as hospitals?
    Yeah you might catch 1....2 smugglers for ever several thousand people killed for organs.

    No thank you.

    It's better not to create the demand for the crime in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Since neither I nor anyone else on this thread has advocated making it legal to buy organs out of an ice chest in the back of some guy's van, this doesn't make any sense.
    You do know that universities (to include hospitals on the premises) have been busted in the past for buying black market organs, right?

    A white coat does not confer ethical purity by any measure.

  9. #29
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    Re: Should you or your family members be able to sell your organs post mortem?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Yeah you might catch 1....2 smugglers for ever several thousand people killed for organs.
    That doesn't make sense. Are you talking about those people who you just said wouldn't obey the laws? If the criminals don't obey the law anyway, then it doesn't matter whether there is a legal market for organ sales or not, as they won't participate. So why do you continue citing them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry
    No thank you.

    It's better not to create the demand for the crime in the first place.
    Are you suggesting that legalizing the sale of organs actually CREATES demand instead of just acknowledging that it already exists? So people are going to want to get kidney transplants just for kicks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry
    You do know that universities (to include hospitals on the premises) have been busted in the past for buying black market organs, right?

    A white coat does not confer ethical purity by any measure.
    And otherwise respectable people visited speak-easies owned by the mafia. Funny how that problem disappeared when Prohibition ended.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 12-21-09 at 12:34 AM.
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  10. #30
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    Re: Should you or your family members be able to sell your organs post mortem?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    They do cost money...the market has simply been driven underground where things like that DO happen. It would be much less likely to happen if we eliminated the black market by legalizing the sale of organs, and requiring that hospitals take precautions to ensure the seller is doing it of his own free will.
    When it comes to aspects of politics like the war on drugs, I think legalization is a good thing. Organs are different. The black market is not that widespread for stolen organs, and exists mostly in parts of the world where the government has very little enforcement ability. I don't think we have such an issue with it in the Western world, which was the founding institution of organ donation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Besides, a few organ thefts are nothing compared to the thousands of deaths that occur each year under the status quo.
    I understand that the ability to sell organs would incentivize more people to do it (or at least their families), but the corruption that would definitely come with it would create a host of other problems on society. I don't see what's wrong with the current system wherein people who want to donate organs after death simply indicate it with their drivers license.

    I don't want my organs donated for spiritual reasons and would not appreciate my family doing it after I die. They know my wishes, but the ability to sell my body parts would make them reconsider.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Actually it's a random, put-your-name-on-a-waitlist system.
    Depends on the country. I'm pretty sure that in Canada, people under 18 get priority, and the elderly are not eligible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Introducing market forces would be much closer to a needs-based system. While not perfect, the laws of economics would indicate that people who desperately need something tend to be willing to pay more than people who kinda-sorta need something. A wait list does nothing of the sort.
    It would also create a host of other problems, such as extorting people for their organs, the poor being more likely to give up body parts and thus increase health risks, debt being repaid with organs, etc. Corruption would be rampant. I disagree that the black market is already that bad and should just be legalized.

    The underground organ market is nowhere near as big as it would be if people could sell their bodies. Theft of body parts would skyrocket. Can you imagine if a kidney could fetch $100,000 on the open market? The urban legend of people being drugged and waking up in a bath tub would become common place, with no way to track the perpetrators.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    All of you guys who keep talking about how repulsive it would be for the rich to receive organs keep forgetting that the alternative is NOT for the poor to receive organs. The alternative is for NO ONE to receive the organs, because most people simply won't donate them out of the goodness of their heart.
    I can tell you from a medical perspective that the vast majority of transplants that have long-term success are those from family members with the same blood type, followed by those who have only the same blood type. The majority of charitable donations are between family members, friends, and communities.

    Legalizing this would not increase the number of organs available per se, but it would definitely make money the determiner for who gets them. That would go against medical ethics, in my books, because it creates a two-tier system of medical supply.

    More than likely, we will be growing organs in labs using cells from the person in need before it ever comes to that.

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