View Poll Results: The United States Constitution protects

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  • The Biological "person"

    9 40.91%
  • The Metaphysical "person"

    3 13.64%
  • Other ; Please explain

    10 45.45%
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Thread: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

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    What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    The relevant text of the Constitution (to this question) is this;

    Amendment V

    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

    Amendment XIV

    Section 1.

    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    Does the Constitution apply to and protect the "biological" aspect of a human individual (person) or the metaphysical aspect (souls, personality, etc.)?

    If you are one who believes in the separation of church and state, answer carefully.
    Last edited by Chuz Life; 12-20-09 at 12:37 PM.

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    Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    The relevant text of the Constitution (to this question) is this;

    Amendment V

    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

    Amendment XIV

    Section 1.

    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    Does the Constitution apply to and protect the "biological" aspect of a human individual (person) or the metaphysical aspect (souls, personality, etc.)?

    If you are one who believes in the separation of church and state, answer carefully.
    "born or naturalized"

    So I guess the unborn counteth not. I just solved the abortion debate!!

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    Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    There is no biological definition for being a person. Person-hood is a social construct in which humans decide the emotional importance of a certain creature. Dogs for example, are often elevated to the status of person-hood by their owners. However, it has nothing to do with the biological status of the dog, but the emotional connection a person feels for it.

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    Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    There is no biological definition for being a person. Person-hood is a social construct in which humans decide the emotional importance of a certain creature. Dogs for example, are often elevated to the status of person-hood by their owners. However, it has nothing to do with the biological status of the dog, but the emotional connection a person feels for it.
    Correction, I found one.
    Person - definition from Biology-Online.org

    8. (Science: biology) A shoot or bud of a plant; a polyp or zooid of the compound hydrozoa anthozoa, etc.; also, an individual, in the narrowest sense, among the higher animals

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    Exclamation Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    "born or naturalized"

    So I guess the unborn counteth not. I just solved the abortion debate!!
    Dude,... surely you realize that the phrase "born or naturalized" is used to determine who is and who is not a "citizen."

    A person is a person even if they are not a "citizen" of the United States.

    If you would read it more closely, you will see that the 14th isn't defining personhood,... it is defining "citizens." And it secures the rights of all "persons" be they "citizens" or not.

    Amendment XIV

    Section 1.

    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    Also,.. consider the word "born" has multiple meanings,... Including "brought into existence" or "created."

    You voted in my other poll "Does a new person's life "biologically" begin at conception" in the affirmative.

    You acknowledge that they exist as a human organism and that their life was "created by" ... "brought into existence by" their conception.

    So let me ask you,.... How can it not be said that a "person" is just as "born" at the moment of their conception,.. as they are a the removal from their mother womb?

    If not more so.


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    Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    Dude,... surely you realize that the phrase "born or naturalized" is used to determine who is and who is not a "citizen."

    A person is a person even if they are not a "citizen" of the United States.

    If you would read it more closely, you will see that the 14th isn't defining personhood,... it is defining "citizens." And it secures the rights of all "persons" be they "citizens" or not.

    Amendment XIV

    Section 1.

    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    Also,.. consider the word "born" has multiple meanings,... Including "brought into existence" or "created."

    You voted in my other poll "Does a new person's life "biologically" begin at conception" in the affirmative.

    You acknowledge that they exist as a human organism and that their life was "created by" ... "brought into existence by" their conception.

    So let me ask you,.... How can it not be said that a "person" is just as "born" at the moment of their conception,.. as they are a the removal from their mother womb?

    If not more so.

    For the answer to that you'll have to sift through the piles upon piles of rhetoric in the thread about defining just what a 'person' is. It's really a matter of opinion when "personhood" begins because even by definition "person" can be applied to the unborn, but more realistically it is applied to the post born. Why? Well, that's just the opinion(s) of many.

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    Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    The constitution protects people who've been born and we can see. Not goo in petri dishes.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 12-20-09 at 10:28 PM.
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    Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    Dude,... surely you realize that the phrase "born or naturalized" is used to determine who is and who is not a "citizen."

    A person is a person even if they are not a "citizen" of the United States.

    If you would read it more closely, you will see that the 14th isn't defining personhood,... it is defining "citizens." And it secures the rights of all "persons" be they "citizens" or not.

    Amendment XIV

    Section 1.

    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    Also,.. consider the word "born" has multiple meanings,... Including "brought into existence" or "created."

    You voted in my other poll "Does a new person's life "biologically" begin at conception" in the affirmative.

    You acknowledge that they exist as a human organism and that their life was "created by" ... "brought into existence by" their conception.

    So let me ask you,.... How can it not be said that a "person" is just as "born" at the moment of their conception,.. as they are a the removal from their mother womb?

    If not more so.

    One problem here. When they are talking about being "born or naturalized" here they are talking about actually being born..as in the day that they are birthed, they day they come out of the woman. As is evidenced by the fact that if an illegal gets pregnant in Mexico and then comes to the US and has that child on US soil that child is considered a US citizen. Even if she has that baby the very same day that she arrives in the US.
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    Question Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    For the answer to that you'll have to sift through the piles upon piles of rhetoric in the thread about defining just what a 'person' is. It's really a matter of opinion when "personhood" begins because even by definition "person" can be applied to the unborn, but more realistically it is applied to the post born. Why? Well, that's just the opinion(s) of many.
    Let me ask you more bluntly, Dude,.. as you are known to call it like you see it, regardless of how it reflects onto yourself.

    When is a new person actually "created" or "brought into existence?"

    Conception? Or live birth?

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    Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    It protects the biological person. Since embryos/fetuses are not homosapiens by scientific definition, the discussion is moot.

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