View Poll Results: The United States Constitution protects

Voters
22. You may not vote on this poll
  • The Biological "person"

    9 40.91%
  • The Metaphysical "person"

    3 13.64%
  • Other ; Please explain

    10 45.45%
Page 9 of 16 FirstFirst ... 7891011 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 160

Thread: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

  1. #81
    Lurker
    iangb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, UK
    Last Seen
    03-03-17 @ 02:04 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,927
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life
    BORN
    1. Brought into life by birth.
    2. Brought into existence; created: A new nation was born with the revolution.- American heritage Dictionary
    This looks suspiciously like you looked up 'born' in the dictionary, realised that the common use of neither definition matched your agenda (in fact; almost completely opposed it, as do the definitions for birth) and decided that the only solution matching your aims was to attempt to create a new common usage for the second definition, based on your preconcieved (no pun intended) notion that conception is 'the start of existence'.

    As your poll on this forum (and others) shows, that is by no means a consensus opinion.
    The truth may be out there, but lies are in your head. ~Terry Pratchett

  2. #82
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Epic Mountain
    Last Seen
    12-28-09 @ 06:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,384

    Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    Sexual Intercourse does not a baby make. It does necessarily an immediate conception make.

    "Conception typically occurs about two weeks after your period begins. To calculate your due date, your health care provider will count ahead 40 weeks from the start of your last period. This means your period is counted as part of your pregnancy even though you weren't pregnant at the time. "

    Fetal development: The first trimester - MayoClinic.com

  3. #83
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Nun-ya-dang Bidness
    Last Seen
    02-19-11 @ 03:14 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    3,981

    joke Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    Quote Originally Posted by iangb View Post
    This looks suspiciously like you looked up 'born' in the dictionary, realised that the common use of neither definition matched your agenda (in fact; almost completely opposed it, as do the definitions for birth) and decided that the only solution matching your aims was to attempt to create a new common usage for the second definition, based on your preconcieved (no pun intended) notion that conception is 'the start of existence'.

    As your poll on this forum (and others) shows, that is by no means a consensus opinion.
    <--- detected

    Common useage,.. consensus?

    Can anyone say "Flat Earther?"

    The facts are what they are,... a new organism (forget humans for a second),... a new organism "comes into being," that is,... "comes into existence" at the moment it is "conceived."

    It's a biological fact.

    Whether it is commonly regarded as a "birth" or whether we have a consensus is a completely seperate matter as to what the biological facts are.
    Last edited by Chuz Life; 12-21-09 at 12:26 PM.

  4. #84
    Lurker
    iangb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, UK
    Last Seen
    03-03-17 @ 02:04 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,927
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    The facts are what they are,... a new organism (forget humans for a second),... a new organism "comes into being, comes into existence" at the moment it is "conceived."

    It's a biological fact.

    Whether it is commonly regarded as a "birth" or whether we have a consensus is a completely seperate matter as to what the biological facts are.
    This is simply not true. 'Biological fact' is simply what the scientific consensus states at the time - and there is no scientific consensus on the matter. Nor is it even a particularly scientific question - the argument is almost entirely semantic in nature.

    To quote from here:
    "[Whether a zygote is an organism or not] isn't a topic of concern in the scientific community. In fact, it isn't even really science! Science is testable and falsifiable; my view is neither. This does not make it a religious view, however; consider the fact that neither is your position in this argument! It is philosophy and semantics; taxonomy with some deep thoughts, if you will!"
    The truth may be out there, but lies are in your head. ~Terry Pratchett

  5. #85
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Nun-ya-dang Bidness
    Last Seen
    02-19-11 @ 03:14 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    3,981

    Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    Quote Originally Posted by iangb View Post
    This is simply not true. 'Biological fact' is simply what the scientific consensus states at the time - and there is no scientific consensus on the matter. Nor is it even a particularly scientific question - the argument is almost entirely semantic in nature.

    To quote from here:
    "[Whether a zygote is an organism or not] isn't a topic of concern in the scientific community. In fact, it isn't even really science! Science is testable and falsifiable; my view is neither. This does not make it a religious view, however; consider the fact that neither is your position in this argument! It is philosophy and semantics; taxonomy with some deep thoughts, if you will!"
    Ian,.. isn't it beneath you to use one man's opinion on a blog as a reference to support your claims?

    There is scientific consensus regarding human conception being the biological beginning of a new human's (human organism's) life.

    You just don't want to accept it.

    Like I said,.. Yours is a "flat earth" mentality.

    From the very source you referenced;

    Animals that use internal fertilization specialize in the protection of the developing egg. For example, reptiles and birds secrete eggs that are covered by a protective shell that is resistant to water loss and damage. Mammals, with the exception of monotremes, take this idea of protection a step further by allowing the embryo to develop within the mother. This extra protection increases the chances of survival because mom supplies everything that the embryo needs. In fact, most mammalian mothers continue to care for their young for several years after birth.

    Would you like to see even more references from your site?

    I've only began to read some of them.
    Last edited by Chuz Life; 12-21-09 at 01:07 PM.

  6. #86
    Lurker
    iangb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, UK
    Last Seen
    03-03-17 @ 02:04 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,927
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    Ian,.. isn't it beneath you to use one man's opinion on a blog as a reference to support your claims?
    ...

    From the very source you referenced;
    I have to admit, I'm now a little confused.

    Of the three URLs given in my previous post, one links to a post of mine made on 4forums which sums up various 'scientific opinions' on the matter, one links to the Court ruling from Roe vs Wade and one links to a page on allexperts.com, which describes itself as being "the very first large-scale question and answer service on the net!". None of them are 'one mans opinion on a blog', unless you are counting Dr. Kalstrom's answer from AllAnswers, which I included because he is somewhat qualified to talk on the subject, having as he does a PhD in biology.

    Furthermore, none of the links went to (or even made further reference to, as far as I can tell) the about.com page that you say I referenced. Where did it come from?

    Even more furthermore, with regards to the contents of the about.com page itself: how is this related to your claim that a zygote is an organism, or that a humans life begins at conception? The fact that a human embryo develops within the mother is not one which you will find me contesting - just as sperm cells develop in the testes. This says nothing about whether a zygote (or even the developing embryo mentioned) is a person, nor an organism in it's own right. All it says is that an embryo is alive - a fact that I also do not question (albeit on a cellular level).
    Last edited by iangb; 12-21-09 at 01:26 PM. Reason: final sentence added
    The truth may be out there, but lies are in your head. ~Terry Pratchett

  7. #87
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Epic Mountain
    Last Seen
    12-28-09 @ 06:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,384

    Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    Chuz I think see what you're saying:

    The 9 months in the womb for mammals (Humans in this case) are like the first 9 months after conception in other animals/organisms, regardless of where they are (physically residing)?

  8. #88
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Nun-ya-dang Bidness
    Last Seen
    02-19-11 @ 03:14 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    3,981

    Thumbs up Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    Chuz I think see what you're saying:

    The 9 months in the womb for mammals (Humans in this case) are like the first 9 months after conception in other animals/organisms, regardless of where they are (physically residing)?
    That's correct,... even though I hadn't actually thought of it like that, myself.

  9. #89
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Epic Mountain
    Last Seen
    12-28-09 @ 06:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,384

    Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    That's correct,... even though I hadn't actually thought of it like that, myself.
    Then for you "birth" isn't any more of a definition of humanity or personhood than learning to walk or starting to eat solid foods? It's just another step on the path to maturity/development. Because if the new human begins at conception, all points afterwords are just benchmarks.

    am I close?

  10. #90
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Nun-ya-dang Bidness
    Last Seen
    02-19-11 @ 03:14 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    3,981

    joke Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    Quote Originally Posted by iangb View Post
    I have to admit, I'm now a little confused.

    Of the three URLs given in my previous post, one links to a post of mine made on 4forums which sums up various 'scientific opinions' on the matter, one links to the Court ruling from Roe vs Wade and one links to a page on allexperts.com, which describes itself as being "the very first large-scale question and answer service on the net!". None of them are 'one mans opinion on a blog', unless you are counting Dr. Kalstrom's answer from AllAnswers, which I included because he is somewhat qualified to talk on the subject, having as he does a PhD in biology.

    Furthermore, none of the links went to (or even made further reference to, as far as I can tell) the about.com page that you say I referenced. Where did it come from?

    Even more furthermore, with regards to the contents of the about.com page itself: how is this related to your claim that a zygote is an organism, or that a humans life begins at conception? The fact that a human embryo develops within the mother is not one which you will find me contesting - just as sperm cells develop in the testes. This says nothing about whether a zygote (or even the developing embryo mentioned) is a person, nor an organism in it's own right. All it says is that an embryo is alive - a fact that I also do not question (albeit on a cellular level).
    Ian,.. do tell me what you require in the way of proof that a zygote is an organism,... and that there is a consensus in the scientific community as to the fact that conception begins a new organisms life...

    Maybe then I can address your concerns in a more direct manner.

Page 9 of 16 FirstFirst ... 7891011 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •