View Poll Results: The United States Constitution protects

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  • The Biological "person"

    9 40.91%
  • The Metaphysical "person"

    3 13.64%
  • Other ; Please explain

    10 45.45%
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Thread: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

  1. #11
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    fyi Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    One problem here. When they are talking about being "born or naturalized" here they are talking about actually being born..as in the day that they are birthed, they day they come out of the woman. As is evidenced by the fact that if an illegal gets pregnant in Mexico and then comes to the US and has that child on US soil that child is considered a US citizen. Even if she has that baby the very same day that she arrives in the US.
    That is how the writers of the amendment define what a "citizen" is.

    Not what a "person" is.

    Read what the amendment says.... You do not have to be a "citizen" (person born or naturalized) to have a right to your life, liberty, due process and equal protection of the laws under the 14th Amendment.

    Amendment XIV

    Section 1.

    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    Is it still going over your heads?




  2. #12
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    Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    Let me ask you more bluntly, Dude,.. as you are known to call it like you see it, regardless of how it reflects onto yourself.

    When is a new person actually "created" or "brought into existence?"

    Conception? Or live birth?
    A new person? Well, again, depends on what you would define as a person. Some would say that the minute that egg fertilizes you have a person, some would say that certain changes within the womb that begin to define you as a human (Consciousness, Nervous System, etc.), and still more would say until you breach your uteral oven and take that first breath on your own, you are not a person. Me personally? I don't care enough to go one way or another, though I'd probably swing more towards actual birth being the beginning. Why you ask? Well I'll tell you why. Because 1. Semantics are on my side here. Born is Born is Born. and 2. Most people can associate with 'born' being the actual act of being born forth from your mother's loins. Now, when are they created? well, the PROCESS starts with successful fertilization. The process isn't finished until, well, until it's finished and it's time to pull the bun from the oven.

    And on the topic of Processes. What instances do we take something that is IN the process of being constructed and qualify it as the end product? What instances do we look at something being put together and not qualify it as the end product, simply because it isn't yet finished?

  3. #13
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    Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    That is how the writers of the amendment define what a "citizen" is.

    Not what a "person" is.

    Read what the amendment says.... You do not have to be a "citizen" (person born or naturalized) to have a right to your life, liberty, due process and equal protection of the laws under the 14th Amendment.

    Amendment XIV

    Section 1.

    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    Is it still going over your heads?


    Why do you not bold the word above in size 14....
    Last edited by Hatuey; 12-20-09 at 10:39 PM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    That is how the writers of the amendment define what a "citizen" is.

    Not what a "person" is.

    Read what the amendment says.... You do not have to be a "citizen" (person born or naturalized) to have a right to your life, liberty, due process and equal protection of the laws under the 14th Amendment.

    Amendment XIV

    Section 1.

    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    Is it still going over your heads?


    So what? It's not like posting your "spiritual" interpretation of the constitution will change scientific consensus. Obviously said piece of paper doesn't "protect" embryos/fetuses or else abortion would not be legal.

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    Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    That is how the writers of the amendment define what a "citizen" is.

    Not what a "person" is.

    Read what the amendment says.... You do not have to be a "citizen" (person born or naturalized) to have a right to your life, liberty, due process and equal protection of the laws under the 14th Amendment.

    Amendment XIV

    Section 1.

    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    Is it still going over your heads?



    And you have to either be a Citizen of this Nation, or a person visiting (Some would say visiting legally, others would say just feet on the soil is all you need) the nation to be afforded the protections of the Constitution.

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    Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    Let me ask you more bluntly, Dude,.. as you are known to call it like you see it, regardless of how it reflects onto yourself.

    When is a new person actually "created" or "brought into existence?"

    Conception? Or live birth?
    Live birth. Scientific consensus has confirmed that (and as sperm is alive, who's to say it shouldn't begin before conception if you're going to take that route?)

  7. #17
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    Exclamation Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    A new person? Well, again, depends on what you would define as a person. Some would say that the minute that egg fertilizes you have a person, some would say that certain changes within the womb that begin to define you as a human (Consciousness, Nervous System, etc.), and still more would say until you breach your uteral oven and take that first breath on your own, you are not a person. Me personally? I don't care enough to go one way or another, though I'd probably swing more towards actual birth being the beginning. Why you ask? Well I'll tell you why. Because 1. Semantics are on my side here. Born is Born is Born. and 2. Most people can associate with 'born' being the actual act of being born forth from your mother's loins. Now, when are they created? well, the PROCESS starts with successful fertilization. The process isn't finished until, well, until it's finished and it's time to pull the bun from the oven.

    And on the topic of Processes. What instances do we take something that is IN the process of being constructed and qualify it as the end product? What instances do we look at something being put together and not qualify it as the end product, simply because it isn't yet finished?
    Dude,.. the "process" required to create a child is called "sexual intercourse." If it is successfull, at the end of the process you have a new child,... Young, dependant and easily deniable... But it's still a new organism that didn't exist before. It was "created," "brought into existence," "born" at the moment of their conception.

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    Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    Dude,.. the "process" required to create a child is called "sexual intercourse." If it is successfull, at the end of the process you have a new child,... Young, dependant and easily deniable... But it's still a new organism that didn't exist before. It was "created," "brought into existence," "born" at the moment of their conception.
    You seem to be missing 9 months of the process.

    "Conceived" and "Born" are two similar terms, but not the same when referencing baby making as you are here.

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    Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Why do you not bold the word above in size 14....
    A person is "born" at the moment of their conception.

    That's when they are actually "created" or "brought into existence."

    "Birth" delivering a baby from the mother's womb,...is just a change of address for the child who already has been living for about 9 months.

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    Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    You seem to be missing 9 months of the process.

    "Conceived" and "Born" are two similar terms, but not the same when referencing baby making as you are here.
    He's still ignoring the proven scientific fact that sperm is biologically alive (likely to avoid having to admit to mass murder every time he enjoys the occasional masturbation).

    Why do pro-lifers try to deny sperm it's Constitutionally-protected personhood? Hypocrite much??

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