View Poll Results: The United States Constitution protects

Voters
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  • The Biological "person"

    9 40.91%
  • The Metaphysical "person"

    3 13.64%
  • Other ; Please explain

    10 45.45%
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Thread: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

  1. #111
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    Exclamation Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    You asked what he required to in the way of proof of your claims and he provided a very reasoned and thought out response that detailed to you precisely what is needed.
    "Proof" can be a lot of things.... But one thing it is not is in the way I construct my arguments or respond to criticisms.

    That's not asking for "proof" or evidence.... that's asking to be "compelled."

    Even I know better than to be suckered into that trap.

    That said,... "Shopping Happens"

    --Santa-Chuz
    Last edited by Chuz Life; 12-21-09 at 06:05 PM.

  2. #112
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    Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    It's clear that your idea of my needs and my idea of my needs are two different things. (shall I list YOUR needs?)

    I asked what it is that you require in the way of proof of my claims and of a consensus.

    You are still too vague in your response for me to know exactly what you want. Definitions? Images? Links to more references? What?

    I didn't ask (and don't care to know) what it is that you require in my making a better presentation or debate.
    List 'my' needs, by all means. I would be interested in what you have to say. In fact - throw in what you'd like me to provide to prove my claims, seeing as I've done the same for you, albeit with less detail than you'd like. It might provide a bit more of an example for me and allow me to be more specific.

    You ask for more specifics... but I've already laid out what I would/do ask of you; I will try to be more so this time. So far, you haven't produced any evidence on the 'scientific consensus' and all you have provided on 'a zygote is an organism' is three links, in another thread on a different forum, which I have already responded to with three links of my own which directly oppose yours. What I am asking of you is to provide something more. The format of that 'something more' does not matter - what matters is the strength of that evidence. Provide some evidence which is either indisputable or so strong that it knocks way anything else I could post against it - because so far, I (or someone else) has knocked down whatever you have put up.

    EDIT: You (and rivrrat) posted, giving me a bit more insight. It's definitely how you respond to criticism which means you haven't supported your claims - because if every bit of evidence you post is dismissed (for valid reasons) then you still have not supported your claim.
    Last edited by iangb; 12-21-09 at 06:23 PM.
    The truth may be out there, but lies are in your head. ~Terry Pratchett

  3. #113
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    Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    "Proof" can be a lot of things.... But one thing it is not is in the way I construct my arguments or respond to criticisms.

    That's not asking for "proof" or evidence.... that's asking to be "compelled."

    Even I know better than to be suckered into that trap.

    That said,... "Shopping Happens"

    --Santa-Chuz
    Ah. So you didn't read the post at all. Gotcha. *nod*

  4. #114
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    Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz
    "Proof" can be a lot of things.... But one thing it is not is in the way I construct my arguments or respond to criticisms.

    That's not asking for "proof" or evidence.... that's asking to be "compelled."

    Even I know better than to be suckered into that trap.
    But Chuz - proof is compelling.

    "Proof
    NOUN:
    1. The evidence or argument that compels the mind to accept an assertion as true.
    "

    You have given some evidences and arguments that support your claims. I (and others) have debunked your evidence/arguments with evidence/arguments of our own. You claims are not proven because your evidence is not compelling - every single argument has been dealt with, and you have not defended them.

    If your only aim was to provide 'evidence', regardless of the strength of such evidence, you could simply have written "Because I said so!" and left this forum satisfied that you had argued your claim. The fact that you have not done so indicates that you wish your argument to be more of a proof; more compelling to readers to accept your assertions as true. In this case, my post above has a handy guide for you.
    The truth may be out there, but lies are in your head. ~Terry Pratchett

  5. #115
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    Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    The "metaphysical person" which originates in our biology.

  6. #116
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    Question Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarcho-fascist View Post
    The "metaphysical person" which originates in our biology.
    You are the first person to vote "metaphysical," Anarcho...

    Can you elaborate for me?

  7. #117
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    Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    Quote Originally Posted by iangb View Post
    But Chuz - proof is compelling.

    "Proof
    NOUN:
    1. The evidence or argument that compels the mind to accept an assertion as true."

    You have given some evidences and arguments that support your claims. I (and others) have debunked your evidence/arguments with evidence/arguments of our own. You claims are not proven because your evidence is not compelling - every single argument has been dealt with, and you have not defended them.

    If your only aim was to provide 'evidence', regardless of the strength of such evidence, you could simply have written "Because I said so!" and left this forum satisfied that you had argued your claim. The fact that you have not done so indicates that you wish your argument to be more of a proof; more compelling to readers to accept your assertions as true. In this case, my post above has a handy guide for you.
    Ian,.. The "proof" is out there... I suspect the lies in your head are impeding your ability to see it for what it is.

  8. #118
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    Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    Ian,.. The "proof" is out there... I suspect the lies in your head are impeding your ability to see it for what it is.
    If it were out there, Chuz, you would be posting it, rather than coming up with one-liners without substance.

    Prove your claims! Give evidence! If I dismiss it for invalid reasons, point them out - but if you cannot find a single undismissable bit of evidence to back up your statement, you might want to be considering what lies are in your own head.
    The truth may be out there, but lies are in your head. ~Terry Pratchett

  9. #119
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    Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    nvm Foolish statement made.
    Last edited by Kal'Stang; 12-22-09 at 10:27 AM.
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  10. #120
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    Re: What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post

    Does the Constitution apply to and protect the "biological" aspect of a human individual (person) or the metaphysical aspect (souls, personality, etc.)?


    It covers both.
    Pointedly the 'physical' - as in 'no cruel and unusual punishment' as well as 'search and seizure' and so on.
    Having a 'soul' is a religious or faith belief - not everyone believes in a soul' - so that is protected with religious "freedoms"

    Can someone's soul or personality alone own property, walk, or exist? No - according to most people the body is a vessel and the soul leaves it when the body dies. So it's imparted with the body's freedoms and liberties as long as the body can be bound by human laws and hands.


    If you are one who believes in the separation of church and state, answer carefully.
    I didn't need to be careful - I think it's quite cut and dry.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 12-22-09 at 10:44 AM.
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