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Does life biologically begin at conception?

Does a new person's life "biologically" begin at conception?


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Neither do I.

And stating that "sometimes a zygote can't develop" does not dispute the biological fact that a new organism's life begins at the moment of their conception. This is true in all mammals,... not only humans.
That is scientifically incorrect. Sperm is alive according to scientific definition. But if your argument is biological, then it's meaningless, since (like you just admitted) the same is true with all mammals, but we have no problem "murdering" them for hamburgers.
 
That is scientifically incorrect. Sperm is alive according to scientific definition. But if your argument is biological, then it's meaningless, since (like you just admitted) the same is true with all mammals, but we have no problem "murdering" them for hamburgers.

I ate a dead child (bacon) for breakfast this morning. Twas yummy.
 
That is scientifically incorrect. It is not possible for a child to exist in the fetal stage of development (that would be fetuses/embryos). A child can only exist after being fully developed in the womb according to science.


That is scientifically incorrect. A fetus/embryo is not homosapien according to scientific definition.


Medical Dictionary
Main Entry: child
Pronunciation:
Function: noun
Inflected Form: plural chil·dren /'chil-dr&n, -d&rn/
1 : an unborn or recently born person
2 : a young person especially between infancy and youth —with child :

--Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, © 2002 Merriam-Webster, Inc
 
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Medical Dictionary
Main Entry: child
Pronunciation:
Function: noun
Inflected Form: plural chil·dren /'chil-dr&n, -d&rn/
1 : an unborn or recently born person
2 : a young person especially between infancy and youth —with child :

Well **** if it's the 4th definition in the Dictionary.com medical dictionary it must be right! I ****ing love semantics. but I suppose that's where the "She's with child" phrase comes from.
 
Neither do I.

And stating that "sometimes a zygote can't develop" does not dispute the biological fact that a new organism's life begins at the moment of their conception. This is true in all mammals,... not only humans.

It's alive, but it's not an individual.
 
That is scientifically incorrect. Sperm is alive according to scientific definition. But if your argument is biological, then it's meaningless, since (like you just admitted) the same is true with all mammals, but we have no problem "murdering" them for hamburgers.

I never said that sperm cells were not alive. So, I don't know where you are getting that.

As far as my arguments being meaningless?

If they are meaningless to you,... fine... But don't then expect yours to have any meaning to me.

And as far as killing animals for food?

I never equated them to persons.

All humans (Persons) are mammals.... Not all mammals are "persons."

Persons have human rights (because they are human)....

Animals have only the rights that we "humans" grant them.

If they were able,.. believe me.... they would do the same to us.

Go to alaska, rub yourself down with honey.... and tell the Grizzlies to back off and respect your right not to be killed and eaten.
 
That is scientifically incorrect. Sperm is alive according to scientific definition. But if your argument is biological, then it's meaningless, since (like you just admitted) the same is true with all mammals, but we have no problem "murdering" them for hamburgers.

Why can't we murder humans?
 
It's alive, but it's not an individual.

Yes,.. it is.

Look up the words.

"A" zygote = an "individual" zygote.

A:
7.any; a single: not a one.

Individual;
Biology. a.a single organism capable of independent existence.



News for you,.. a living zygote is a single celled organism that "exists" independently from it's other.

existence;
1.the state or fact of existing; being.
 
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A zygote is not an individual person. Gastrulation is the point that determines that.
 
Phat,.. If an individual is not conceived,.. will it ever reach gastulation?

Were You not conceived?

At conception the zygote has the potential still to become more than 1 person. It is not an individual until gastrulation. At that point the potential to become more than 1 person is lost.
 
At conception the zygote has the potential still to become more than 1 person. It is not an individual until gastrulation. At that point the potential to become more than 1 person is lost.

A person with the "potential" of becoming two.... is still a person unless and until they do so.

Sorry.

If you still disagree, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.
 
Requirements to be qualified as alive:

Can they reproduce? No the testes do this for them.
Can they obtain and use energy? I don't think so...not sure...
Can they Grow, develop, and die? Once again, Don't think so but not entirely sure
Can they respond to the environment? They can swim...


I think this was the thread that Mr. V and I were talking about the alive-ness of spermies, so here is mah post pertaining to that.
 
I never said that sperm cells were not alive. So, I don't know where you are getting that.

As far as my arguments being meaningless?

If they are meaningless to you,... fine... But don't then expect yours to have any meaning to me.

And as far as killing animals for food?

I never equated them to persons.

All humans (Persons) are mammals.... Not all mammals are "persons."

Persons have human rights (because they are human)....

Animals have only the rights that we "humans" grant them.

If they were able,.. believe me.... they would do the same to us.

Go to alaska, rub yourself down with honey.... and tell the Grizzlies to back off and respect your right not to be killed and eaten.

person /= human
human /= person

Any living creature only has rights because the society in which they reside grants them. Nothing is 'born' with rights. One either is given them or they obtain them through force.
 
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person /= human
human /= person

Any living creature only has rights because the society in which they reside grants them. Nothing is 'born' with rights. One either is given them or they obtain them through force.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

As you can see,.. Our founders already brought force to bear to secure the right that "all men" (all of mankind) has a right to their life, liberty,...
 
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so masturbation is mass murder?

Have you ever watched Monty Python's "The Meaning of Life"?:mrgreen: You should check it out if not. There's a cute little tune in it titled "Every Sperm is Sacred".;) I highly recommend it for those who can see humor in just about every human belief.:)
 
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

As you can see,.. Our founders already brought force to bear to secure the right that "all men" (all of mankind) has a right to their life, liberty,...

No, they used force to declare and protect the rights of those within this country's borders... the only people they CAN grants rights to. Just as every other country in the world does for the people within THEIR borders.

Additionally, what our founding fathers 'declare' isn't what is necessarily 'true'.
 
No, they used force to declare and protect the rights of those within this country's borders... the only people they CAN grants rights to. Just as every other country in the world does for the people within THEIR borders.

Additionally, what our founding fathers 'declare' isn't what is necessarily 'true'.

I have the Constitutional right to defend not only my own rights,... but also the rights of others.
 
I'll take my chances.

Say good night gracie,...

Hmmm...wait to be asked or wait until it's clear that someone needs help, or gallivant around like a pompous white knight...

I'll take the first option. :)
 
Phat,.. If an individual is not conceived,.. will it ever reach gastulation?

Were You not conceived?

If an egg cell is never ovulated.. will it ever reach fertilization?

If an ovary never receives puberty hormones.. will it ever ovulate?

Fertilization is just a minor step in the process of reproduction. The entire process is alive. Biological life began a long time ago, probably by chemical evolution or creation.

Biologically I would agree that gastrulation is more important than fertilization. The DNA received from the sperm cell is inactive until the process of gastrulation begins. Additionally, this is the point when twinning stops, ensuring individuality.

Gastrulation is also when interspecies hybrids die. A half-monkey half-human can survive until gastrulation. Actually you could probably fertilize an egg cell with a piece of cheese if you wanted to. Sperm is just a delivery system for DNA. Cheese has DNA.
 
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Biologically I would agree that gastrulation is more important than fertilization. The DNA received from the sperm cell is inactive until the process of gastrulation begins. Additionally, this is the point when twinning stops, ensuring individuality.

Actually in humans that's probably not quite true. The mid-blastula transition hasn't been determined in humans as far as I know.
 
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