View Poll Results: Does a new person's life "biologically" begin at conception?

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  • Yes

    54 64.29%
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Thread: Does life biologically begin at conception?

  1. #21
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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    So then you don't really value life. You value some life.
    Like I said, everything that lives requires that something else is sacrificed. My body kills and/or eats what it needs to survive. Those little microbes are doing the same thing. It just depends on which of us wins.
    Last edited by lizzie; 12-20-09 at 01:13 AM.

  2. #22
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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Like I said, everything that lives requires that something else is sacrificed. My body kills and/or eats what it needs to survive. Those little microbes are doing the same thing. It just depends on which of us wins.
    You kill microbes far in excess of what you need to survive. You could easily bathe only once a week without risking your life, yet I doubt you do. You could easily survive by eating flatbread to avoid killing yeast, but I doubt you never eat leavened bread either. Humans don't kill microbes to survive, we kill them because we have absolutely no regard for there existence. Humans do not ever consider the bacterial death toll when undertaking an action. Life by itself is worthless to us.

  3. #23
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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Until a Fetus is delivered, it is simply part of the host organism.


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  4. #24
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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    From the "Compromise on abortion" thread;



    Does everyone agree with myself and Rivrrat that a new person's life "biologically" begins at the moment of their conception?

    Yes or no?
    Biologically? Sure. I don't really see how it's relevant to abortion policy though.
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  5. #25
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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    How insane, depressing and backwards a man's life became.

    When he doesn't even know when it started.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

  6. #26
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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Why is this even a poll. The OP should've just looked it up on Wikipedia. Sperm is biologically alive, so no, life does not "biologically" begin at conception. Case closed. No poll needed.

    The anti-choice movement isn't based on "biological life" - it's based on the concept of the "soul", and in some cases, it's about fearing that women will not be forced into a "traditional caste system", so however wrote this poll must have been on crack.

  7. #27
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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Toothpicvic View Post
    The anti-choice movement isn't based on "biological life" - it's based on the concept of the "soul", and in some cases, it's about fearing that women will not be forced into a "traditional caste system", so however wrote this poll must have been on crack.
    Not just that... for many it's about punishing women who have illicit sex. It's sometimes more about politicization of sexual lifestyles than it is about what the woman is carrying inside of her.

  8. #28
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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    So I agree that life "biologically" begins at conception, but when does it "spiritually" begin? When is the soul factored into the equation? That could happen at any time after the fact. Does God deny the soul its existance because the parents had an abortion? Isn't the primary moral argument against abortion that man is meddling with God's intentions? If so, isn't killing the sperm before it meets the egg that same thing? The Roman Catholics think so.

    I think man has tried to over-simplify the abortion issue. It isn't simple (including reasons for an abortion).

  9. #29
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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    So I agree that life "biologically" begins at conception
    It doesn't. Sperm is alive. The OP doesn't know what "biologically" means. His argument is spiritual.

  10. #30
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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Generally whenever someone makes an argument along the lines of "abortion is murder, because you are killing a human being," I ask them why it is illegal/immoral to kill a human being. Think about your answer to that question for a moment.

    Surely murder isn't illegal/immoral merely because it's undesirable to kill living things. After all, cows and pigs are alive, and we kill and eat them every day.

    Maybe it's illegal/immoral because there is something special about human DNA. But a close look at our genetic code reveals that we share over 99% of our DNA with other primates, and a fairly large percentage (I don't remember exactly how much) with all mammals.

    Is murder illegal/immoral because the victim's friends and family would suffer? Well...we don't allow people to kill vagrants with no friends or family.

    Some religious people might argue that it is illegal/immoral because humans have souls. But since there is no way to empirically test whether or not such a thing even exists, much less whether any specific entity such as a fetus has one, it is nothing more than an article of faith. It is never good idea to base government policy on articles of faith, whether they are religious or secular.

    Or perhaps murder is illegal/immoral because of the potential value the victim had to society? If that is the case, why merely ban abortion? Masturbation and contraception are mass murder on the grandest scale, depriving society of millions of potential people.

    Maybe murder is illegal/immoral because the victim suffers pain. But what if we anesthetize the fetus first, so that there was no possibility it could feel pain? Would this assuage your concerns about the procedure? I think not.

    The nihilist (or the social contract theorist) might say that there is nothing inherently immoral about murder at all, as morals are social constructs. Perhaps it is only illegal because we personally don't want to be killed, and the only way to get everyone else to agree to that is for us to agree not to kill them in exchange. If that is the case, abortion should remain legal, as the people who are setting the laws do not need to worry about being aborted, having already been born themselves.

    As I see it, none of these arguments address the reasoning behind why murder is illegal/immoral, and thus none of them are a valid justification for banning abortion. In my opinion, the reason society deems murder illegal/immoral is because the human brain is extremely complex, and society considers it undesirable to lose such a valuable resource (plus a bit of the nihilist/social contract theory too). For this reason, I would personally be appalled at the idea of killing intelligent extraterrestrials or intelligent computers...but would not be appalled at the idea of killing a cow.

    That's just my two cents. Let me know if my reasoning is flawed somewhere.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 12-20-09 at 04:58 AM.
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