View Poll Results: Does a new person's life "biologically" begin at conception?

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  • Yes

    54 64.29%
  • No

    30 35.71%
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Thread: Does life biologically begin at conception?

  1. #271
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    Cool Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsunami View Post
    Did you not understand or do you want references?
    I understand what you are claiming,... completely.

    That's how (and why) I know I disagree with it.

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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    I understand what you are claiming,... completely.

    That's how (and why) I know I disagree with it.
    You disagree that an embryo doesn't have brain activity until 7 weeks gestation? Or that gastrulation stops the possibility of twinning? Or that the new DNA is created by the first mitosis?

    In truth, you don't disagree with anything I said. You just disagree with the reasons that I said it, and you aren't willing to admit it. What you don't understand is that I'm not using science just to back up my intention to kill fetuses. I came upon an abortion thread knowing very little about the process. I went to wikipedia and some other sites and did some research, and that is how I came upon these facts. I have no agenda.
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    Thumbs up Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsunami View Post
    1) You disagree that an embryo doesn't have brain activity until 7 weeks gestation? 2) Or that gastrulation stops the possibility of twinning? 3) Or that the new DNA is created by the first mitosis?
    I completely accept the biological facts,...

    What I disagree with is your conclusions about those facts.

    To American's question;

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    For those who voted 'NO', I'd like to know when you think a person's life biologically begins?
    You responded,..
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsunami View Post
    We have a thread on this question already, it has 1258 replies so far. But the answer depends on your definition. Life itself biologically began a long time ago. New DNA begins at the first mitosis after fertilization. Individuality, the inability to make a twin, begins at gastrulation. Brain activity seems to begin after 7-9 weeks gestation, but sentience and consciousness might take until 36 weeks or more. Legal protection begins at viability. Citizenship and separation begin at birth.
    By your loose definition of "individuality" a young girl looses her own individuality,... when she starts getting her period and gains the ability to produce a child.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsunami View Post
    (1) In truth, you don't disagree with anything I said. You just disagree with the reasons that I said it, and you aren't willing to admit it. What you don't understand is that I'm not using science just to back up my intention to kill fetuses. (2) I came upon an abortion thread knowing very little about the process. I went to wikipedia and some other sites and did some research, and that is how I came upon these facts. I have no agenda.
    You are (1) incorrect in your assumptions as I explained already (above.)

    and,...

    (2) Wikipedia? Really? Don't get me wrong, I'm gratefull that you are educating yourself. I have used Wikipedia as a reference myself. But, please.... if you really care about an issue,...use multiple sources.

    And, if you really want to learn the facts,....lose the bias.

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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    It's interesting to look at photos of embryos and fetuses. I took a peek this morning and it appears to me that six weeks is a cut off for recognizable humanity in the developing embryo-fetus.

  5. #275
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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    I completely accept the biological facts,...

    What I disagree with is your conclusions about those facts.

    To American's question;



    You responded,..

    By your loose definition of "individuality" a young girl looses her own individuality,... when she starts getting her period and gains the ability to produce a child.



    You are (1) incorrect in your assumptions as I explained already (above.)

    and,...

    (2) Wikipedia? Really? Don't get me wrong, I'm gratefull that you are educating yourself. I have used Wikipedia as a reference myself. But, please.... if you really care about an issue,...use multiple sources.

    And, if you really want to learn the facts,....lose the bias.
    I got no facts wrong. You admit this yourself. I have no bias or assumptions, I was simply answering the question. I can't help it if you don't like the biology of the answer.

    PS unless a girl at puberty can clone herself you're not getting my point.
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    fyi Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsunami View Post
    I got no facts wrong. You admit this yourself. I have no bias or assumptions, I was simply answering the question. I can't help it if you don't like the biology of the answer.
    Your claim that individuality begins at gastrulation is biologically false.

    When one "individual" splits and becomes two individuals,... You take that to mean that the original 'individual' never was. When in fact, the vast majority of 'individuals' never split, never create a twin and were therefore one and the same individual even before gastrulation that are there-after.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsunami View Post
    PS unless a girl at puberty can clone herself you're not getting my point.
    As it is with your example (pre-gastrulation),... a girl (one individual) after reaching puberty,... has the ability to 'conceive' or 'create' another (2nd individual(s)

    So, using your logic about pre-gastrulation zygotes,.. a girl having reached puberty,... stops being a human individual,.... because at the point of pregnancy,... she MIGHT become two or more.

    Caprice?

    (misspelled intentionally)

  7. #277
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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    "life" biologically begins at conception. This "life" isn't a homo sapien until it is capable of being self-sustaining and cognitive thought. Until then it only has the potential of being a homo sapien.
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
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    Exclamation Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    "life" biologically begins at conception. This "life" isn't a homo sapien until it is capable of being self-sustaining and cognitive thought. Until then it only has the potential of being a homo sapien.
    So,... Human's reproduce by way of metamorphosis,...like frogs and butterflies do?

    We "morph" out of one organism that is not a 'homo-sapien' and into one which is?

    You should report your findings to the scientific, medical and legal communities immediately!

  9. #279
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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    Your claim that individuality begins at gastrulation is biologically false.

    When one "individual" splits and becomes two individuals,... You take that to mean that the original 'individual' never was. When in fact, the vast majority of 'individuals' never split, never create a twin and were therefore one and the same individual even before gastrulation that are there-after.



    As it is with your example (pre-gastrulation),... a girl (one individual) after reaching puberty,... has the ability to 'conceive' or 'create' another (2nd individual(s)

    So, using your logic about pre-gastrulation zygotes,.. a girl having reached puberty,... stops being a human individual,.... because at the point of pregnancy,... she MIGHT become two or more.

    Caprice?

    (misspelled intentionally)
    When a zygote splits itself it isn't making another individual. They are genetically identical. It is free to split again or combine back into one, until gastrulation. The fact that it might not happen in every case doesn't change how the process works. And women cannot do this, so end that foolish argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    So,... Human's reproduce by way of metamorphosis,...like frogs and butterflies do?

    We "morph" out of one organism that is not a 'homo-sapien' and into one which is?

    You should report your findings to the scientific, medical and legal communities immediately!
    Frogs and butterflies do not reproduce by metamorphosis. They do it pretty much the same way we do. The metamorphosis is just an extreme version of puberty.

    PS, Homo Sapiens means "wise man". If it cannot think, is it a homo sapiens?


    Last edited by Tsunami; 01-09-10 at 06:10 PM.
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    fyi Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsunami View Post
    When a zygote splits itself it isn't making another individual. They are genetically identical.


    First of all not even the most similar 'identical twins' are absolutely (genetically) identical.

    Secondly your use of the phrase "another individual" tells me that you do know (on some level) that the original zygote (for whatever mammal it is) is an 'individual' as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsunami View Post
    It is free to split again or combine back into one, until gastrulation. The fact that it might not happen in every case doesn't change how the process works. And women cannot do this, so end that foolish argument.
    You are shooting holes in your own argument, Tsu.... not mine.

    You are trying to make the case that a zygote splitting into two individuals is proof that a single zygote is not an individual.

    Yet, when I point out that a pregnant woman then (by your logic) is not an individual for the reason that she too could create another individual,.... You cry foul because in that case,... the new individual created would not be considered 'identical' to herself.

    News for you,.. identical twins are not absolutely identical.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsunami View Post
    Frogs and butterflies do not reproduce by metamorphosis. They do it pretty much the same way we do. The metamorphosis is just an extreme version of puberty.
    Why do you work so hard at missing a point made?

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