View Poll Results: Does a new person's life "biologically" begin at conception?

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    54 64.29%
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Thread: Does life biologically begin at conception?

  1. #161
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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    It wouldn't be unheard of.

    You know how chimps are more human (and deserving of rights) than pre-birth humans are.... right?
    What is a pre-birth human? I thought humans were born at the moment of conception?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  2. #162
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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    I'm saying your strawman argument that nature can't be expected to respect our rights, so therefore they can't possibly be "inherent" is just that,... a classic strawman argument.

    Description of Straw Man


    The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:
    1. Person A has position X.
    2. Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
    3. Person B attacks position Y.
    4. Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.

    You'd be right, if what I was saying was "nature can't be expected to respect our rights". What I'm saying is that you have no natural rights, innate rights, or inherent rights. The only things you are guaranteed inherently are the laws of physics. something's not much a 'right', especially an innate one, when it can be taken away so easily. That sounds more like a privilege to me.

  3. #163
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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    Nature doesn't have moral affirmations, sentiments, and philosophical concepts.

    Correct?
    Well, humans exist in nature, so it depends on what you mean by "have" moral affirmations, though I'm not sure what difference it would make.

  4. #164
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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    And where (if not from your creator-s) would the rights you are now defending,... come from?
    They come from nowhere but myself. I determine my rights by deciding what I want and defending what I want. As long as I can defend it, what I want is my right.

    Unless of course my rights are granted to me by the country in which I reside. And then I get what THEY want to give me despite what I may want or what I feel is my 'right'. I can, of course, work to change their point of view as well. (hence the constant changes to the rights we have or don't have)

  5. #165
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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    And where (if not from your creator-s) would the rights you are now defending,... come from?
    Rights are just a philosophical construct.

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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    They come from nowhere but myself. I determine my rights by deciding what I want and defending what I want. As long as I can defend it, what I want is my right.

    Unless of course my rights are granted to me by the country in which I reside. And then I get what THEY want to give me despite what I may want or what I feel is my 'right'. I can, of course, work to change their point of view as well. (hence the constant changes to the rights we have or don't have)
    None of this changes the moral sentiment underlying natural rights. Either you agree with negative individual liberties or you don't.

  7. #167
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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Well, humans exist in nature, so it depends on what you mean by "have" moral affirmations, though I'm not sure what difference it would make.
    Since Mother Nature aborts babies all the time and let's baby animals get eaten by bigger animals...I'm just going to assume there is no natural "moral affirmations" at least nothing to be compared with human morals.

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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    None of this changes the moral sentiment underlying natural rights. Either you agree with negative individual liberties or you don't.
    I have no idea what you mean by "agree with". Negative individual liberties aren't something you can "agree with".

    Pray tell, what is this moral sentiment you speak of?

  9. #169
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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    In my highschool debate classes,.. we were told that a sure sign of defeat is when someone starts claiming victory or telling you you have lost.
    You seem to be unaware of the circumstances here. Not once have you been able to defend your argument, instead you are constantly shifting your arguments from one point to another. Generally, mockery of your logic is a sign that the underlying principles you are utilizing are invalid.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  10. #170
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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    You were poorly educated. Rights are in no way inherent. They are granted or taken. We GRANT the presumption of innocence in our legal system. It is not some inherent 'right'. We GRANT him a right to life. We GRANT him a right to equal protection under OUR law, etc. Not a single one of these things are inherent. It's not possible for them to be.
    Certainly there aren't any rights that cannot be taken away. But I think free will is a part of humanity, and certain rights or expectations go along with that. It is part of our genetic makeup to seek life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (for example). These things are genetically inherent. To abridge these rights is to abridge free will. And that can be done, but will always be objected to as long as humanity remains as it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    Are You saying our rights as recognized in the Declaraction of Independence is somehow contrary to those expressed in the Constitution?

    If so,... how so?
    The Declaration of Independence says the rights are granted by a Creator. The Constitution doesn't recognize the Creator, the Declaration of Independence, or (specifically) the rights mentioned by it.
    Last edited by Tsunami; 12-22-09 at 03:13 AM.
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