View Poll Results: Does a new person's life "biologically" begin at conception?

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Thread: Does life biologically begin at conception?

  1. #141
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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    It was sarcasm, my dear.

    And it aparently was lost on you.



    I completely disagree.

    In my civics classes we we educated to respect the fact that basic rights are inherent. Rights are not granted or given (deserved or not) which is the basis for the "presumption of innocence" in cases where the accused is obviously guilty (i.e. the Ft. Hood shooter). Likewise,.. even he has a right to his life, equal protection under the law, due process, etc.

    Whether he "deserves" those rights or not?

    Irrelevant.
    You were poorly educated. Rights are in no way inherent. They are granted or taken. We GRANT the presumption of innocence in our legal system. It is not some inherent 'right'. We GRANT him a right to life. We GRANT him a right to equal protection under OUR law, etc. Not a single one of these things are inherent. It's not possible for them to be.

  2. #142
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    Question Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    Some would say that the Roman Empire had more of a hand in giving the "Presumption of Innocence" idea form than that just being naturally occurring (inherent). I mean, I don't think they've found the "Presumption of Innocence" gene yet...
    Weren't you the one who posted the definition of "Rights?"

    Dude?

    Did you see this one?

    Something that is due to a person or governmental body by law, tradition, or nature.

  3. #143
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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    Weren't you the one who posted the definition of "Rights?"

    Dude?

    Did you see this one?

    Something that is due to a person or governmental body by law, tradition, or nature.
    You're right about that, however the fact that:
    1. I had to scroll way down for that shows it's not a more pertinent definition
    and
    2. Show me where, in nature, that any "right" is guaranteed. ****, show me ANYTHING that we're guaranteed by nature.

    Your "Natural Right to Life" is all good and well until a person stops being alive due to natural causes, or perhaps the Earth explodes. Where'd your right go in that case?

    Which trumps which? Natural causes or natural rights?


    EDIT: Also, nice deflection of my post there too!

  4. #144
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    idea Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    You were poorly educated. Rights are in no way inherent. They are granted or taken. We GRANT the presumption of innocence in our legal system. It is not some inherent 'right'. We GRANT him a right to life. We GRANT him a right to equal protection under OUR law, etc. Not a single one of these things are inherent. It's not possible for them to be.
    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,---That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. "--Declaration of Independence

    "Endowed by their creator" = Inherent.

  5. #145
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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,---That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. "--Declaration of Independence

    "Endowed by their creator" = Inherent.

    And here I am thinking the Constitution was the Law of the land...

  6. #146
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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    You're right about that, however the fact that:
    1. I had to scroll way down for that shows it's not a more pertinent definition
    and
    2. Show me where, in nature, that any "right" is guaranteed. ****, show me ANYTHING that we're guaranteed by nature.

    Your "Natural Right to Life" is all good and well until a person stops being alive due to natural causes, or perhaps the Earth explodes. Where'd your right go in that case?

    Which trumps which? Natural causes or natural rights?

    EDIT: Also, nice deflection of my post there too!
    Nature can not be held liable or accountable.

    A person can.

  7. #147
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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    Nature can not be held liable or accountable.

    A person can.
    So what you're saying is?

  8. #148
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    Question Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    And here I am thinking the Constitution was the Law of the land...
    Are You saying our rights as recognized in the Declaraction of Independence is somehow contrary to those expressed in the Constitution?

    If so,... how so?

  9. #149
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    Exclamation Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    So what you're saying is?
    I'm saying your strawman argument that nature can't be expected to respect our rights, so therefore they can't possibly be "inherent" is just that,... a classic strawman argument.

    Description of Straw Man


    The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:
    1. Person A has position X.
    2. Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
    3. Person B attacks position Y.
    4. Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.

  10. #150
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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,---That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. "--Declaration of Independence

    "Endowed by their creator" = Inherent.
    Soo... if someone writes it, it must be true? Seriously? This is your argument? What 'creator'? When? Where? How?

    Anywho, we GRANT those rights in this country. We are not born with them. The mere fact that we MUST GRANT them only reiterates the fact that they are NOT INHERENT. If they were inherent, we wouldn't need to grant them and enumerate them in a document now would we? We would all just be born with them and know what they are automatically.

    Last but not least, the first words:

    WE HOLD

    We hold = we believe
    Belief /= truth
    We hold or we believe = We grant
    Last edited by rivrrat; 12-21-09 at 11:16 PM.

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