View Poll Results: Does a new person's life "biologically" begin at conception?

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    54 64.29%
  • No

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Thread: Does life biologically begin at conception?

  1. #121
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    Thumbs up Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Tell us, great taxologist, what species does a human embryo belong to?
    Thanx Phat,...

    Everytime I peek, I remind myself of why he's on ignore.

  2. #122
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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life
    My daughter would be just as "just" in her claim to her life as you or I are. In adittion, we have the right to defend one another's rights (claims) by proxy.
    See, that's really where your problem lies. Let's look back at EpicDude86's original statement:

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86
    2: something to which one has a just claim: as a: the power or privilege to which one is justly entitled b1: the interest that one has in a piece of property —often used in plural <mineral rights> b2: plural : the property interest possessed under law or custom and agreement in an intangible thing especially of a literary and artistic nature
    Now you're asserting that your daughter has a "just" claim to life. First off, she is neither mentally nor physically able to make such a claim, no child can even comprehend the philosophical implications of such a claim so that's no surprise there. Secondly, you assert a "just" claim. What makes it just? This is a purely subjective viewpoint. What you consider just, others may not and vice versa. Since there is no objective definition of what is just and what is not, whether or not a claim is "just" or not is really irrelevant.

    Once again, you're taking a purely emotional, personal position and insisting that it have objective application. You think that way, therefore that's the way it ought to be for everyone. You haven't constructed a logical framework and objective argument around your claim to explain *WHY* it ought to be universal, you've just wildly leapt from your feelings to unsupported assertions that they must be true.

    It's not necessarily true until you can logically support it that way.
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  3. #123
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    joke Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    See, that's really where your problem lies. Let's look back at EpicDude86's original statement:

    Now you're asserting that your daughter has a "just" claim to life. First off, she is neither mentally nor physically able to make such a claim, no child can even comprehend the philosophical implications of such a claim so that's no surprise there. Secondly, you assert a "just" claim. What makes it just? This is a purely subjective viewpoint. What you consider just, others may not and vice versa. Since there is no objective definition of what is just and what is not, whether or not a claim is "just" or not is really irrelevant.

    Once again, you're taking a purely emotional, personal position and insisting that it have objective application. You think that way, therefore that's the way it ought to be for everyone. You haven't constructed a logical framework and objective argument around your claim to explain *WHY* it ought to be universal, you've just wildly leapt from your feelings to unsupported assertions that they must be true.

    It's not necessarily true until you can logically support it that way.
    Aparently, you didn't click on the link to the definition of the word; "proxy" in my earlier post.

  4. #124
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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    Aparently, you didn't click on the link to the definition of the word; "proxy" in my earlier post.
    Who decided the rules on being a "proxy"? You?

    Can I be a proxy for a rock? How about for a goat? You have just created more subjectivity in order to explain away previous subjective claims. Where does it end?
    Last edited by scourge99; 12-21-09 at 06:18 PM.
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  5. #125
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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    Aparently, you didn't click on the link to the definition of the word; "proxy" in my earlier post.
    I happen to understand the meaning of the word, it doesn't improve your argument any. Now, not only are you declaring that rights exist out of thin air, you're declaring who ought to have them, based solely on your emotional wishful thinking.

    Sorry, your statements aren't improving, if anything they're getting more irrational.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  6. #126
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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    OP (I'm in late)

    Is a seed a tree?
    An egg a chicken?

    What level of 'life' are we talking about - cells are merely cells. . . the building blocks of life, not life itself. . . they're where things begin - their presence doesn't mean that A) Life is imminent. B) Life is infallible C) Life is permanent.
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  7. #127
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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Who decided the rules on being a "proxy"? You?

    Can I be a proxy for a rock? How about for a goat? You have just created more subjectivity in order to explain away previous subjective claims. Where does it end?
    By the power of the Constitution of the USA, I hereby declare myself the 'rights' proxy of the iguana that lives outside my apartment in Florida. Henceforth, I will protect him from any rights violations since he is a living, breathing, creature of this great earth. I must protect his right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness!!

  8. #128
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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    You lot are misrepresenting the concept of natural rights again...

    A "right" is just a moral affirmation or sentiment; a philosophical concept. Saying they don't exist is just a strawman, because moral sentiments do not become valid by virtue of their tangibility.

  9. #129
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    Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    You lot are misrepresenting the concept of natural rights again...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    A "right" is just a moral affirmation or sentiment; a philosophical concept.
    Nature doesn't have moral affirmations, sentiments, and philosophical concepts.

    Correct?

  10. #130
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    joke Re: Does life biologically begin at conception?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Who decided the rules on being a "proxy"? You?
    If there were rules regarding proxy,... would you abide by them without question in every case?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Can I be a proxy for a rock?
    Aparently you can.

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    How about for a goat?
    I don't know,... maybe... What does the rock have to say about it?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    You have just created more subjectivity in order to explain away previous subjective claims. Where does it end?
    Yeah,.. I know...

    I invented the idea of an able bodied person arguing for the rights of one who is not so able. (Proxy)

    I'm so ashamed.

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