View Poll Results: Would you rather:

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  • Increase all wages though increase income disparity

    14 56.00%
  • Keep wages steady and decrease income disparity

    11 44.00%
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Thread: How do you feel about income?

  1. #61
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    Re: How do you feel about income?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Define fair income inequality.
    There is no definition, it's different from person to person. But what's certain is that no income inequality and low income inequality is very unfair, because effort and hard work isn't rewarded. I'm not saying government should control wages, but there are ways to influence income inequality.

    Do you compare economies by comparing their exchange rates? The reason the dollar is declining is because dollar is less used as a medium of exchange. However, be happy. It helps the US in every single way. It promotes exports from the US and reduces imports.

    GDP is a good measure of economies. After the war Europe had a lot of catch up growth and was increasing relative to the U.S. In the last ten years European countries have been declining and more problems are coming in the future. To mention some
    1. Fall in their ability to compete and outsourcing
    2. Low birthrates, (1.3 in Germany, Italy, Spain, Greece, etc.) and the aging of the population
    3. Immigration isn't working at all. Just look at what Switzerland forbid a week ago. Also, immigrants have a higher tendency to be on welfare programs, and work less. The number of immigrants are increasing fast, very fast.
    4. Work ethics are declining and number of hours worked have been declining.
    5. Number of years in workforce is also declining.
    6. People are not willing to change and think more socialism is the solution.
    7. Taxes are already high in most European countries, and higher taxes will hurt their economies.

    Germany, France have had a growth rate of 1.5%, the last ten years. Italy 1.0%. Spain has an unemployment of 20%. U.S. has high unemployment now (10%), but it is mostly demand-deficient and will improve a lot in better times. Most European countries have a lot of structural unemployment. Just look at how high their unemployment was before the crisis. Of the big countries, only U.K. seem to do fine, but U.K. isn't a left-wing country.
    Last edited by Camlon; 12-06-09 at 01:48 PM.

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    Re: How do you feel about income?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    There is no definition, it's different from person to person. But what's certain is that no income inequality and low income inequality is very unfair, because effort and hard work isn't rewarded. I'm not saying government should control wages, but there are ways to influence income inequality.
    It's baseless. Just because you work does not mean you deserve compensation. Just because you work harder than someone does not mean that you deserve more compensation than he does. Look up the subjective theory of value.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
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  3. #63
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    Re: How do you feel about income?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    It's baseless. Just because you work does not mean you deserve compensation. Just because you work harder than someone does not mean that you deserve more compensation than he does. Look up the subjective theory of value.
    Um, do you want to rephrase that a little more precisely?

    I ain't gonna work if I don't get paid. I ain't gonna work harder than the next guy if it isn't going to get me anywhere, y'know? Little down-home wisdom there.

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    Re: How do you feel about income?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Um, do you want to rephrase that a little more precisely?

    I ain't gonna work if I don't get paid. I ain't gonna work harder than the next guy if it isn't going to get me anywhere, y'know? Little down-home wisdom there.
    It all depends on what you're working on. If you make microchips, you probably make more money in 5 hours than the guy making shovels makes in 25 hours. You're making something more valuable and more scarce, so of course your work is worth a lot more.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: How do you feel about income?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    It all depends on what you're working on. If you make microchips, you probably make more money in 5 hours than the guy making shovels makes in 25 hours. You're making something more valuable and more scarce, so of course your work is worth a lot more.
    Of course; scarcity makes value, to a large degree. Your original statement was a bit more vague than that though.

    Scarcity can be a funny thing sometimes; sometimes it is artificially created. I was around for the "Energy Crisis" and gas-crunch of the late 70's... everyone was terrified that oil was almost gone. Turns out it was entirely artificial, generated by OPEC in an attempt to run the prices up.

    Diamonds are another example. If all the world's diamond mines ran flat-out, their production would be so much greater that the price of diamonds would fall to a fraction of present market value. The value of diamonds is largely a function of artificial scarcity planned and conducted by the mine-owners and major distributors...one reason why I would never consider diamonds a very good investment. If anyone ever breaks out of that cartel the price could plummet.

    Generally speaking I am a huge believer in the free market. Sometimes things do get a bit out of whack though. Has a CEO who presided over the near-collapse of a huge corporation really earned his hundreds-of-millions in compensation? I think not.... but I'm not claiming to have the answer to that, just noting that it kind of sucks.

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    Re: How do you feel about income?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    It's baseless. Just because you work does not mean you deserve compensation. Just because you work harder than someone does not mean that you deserve more compensation than he does. Look up the subjective theory of value.
    You have tendency to mix fairness with rights. My first question was simply. What is more fair? I think the most fair system rewards those who work hard and show initiative. It's the same with parenting. If your kid helps cleaning up the church for instance, you reward the kid with an ice cream or a movie ticket, because you think it is fair.

    However, no one deserves higher pay than other people because they are working harder. If you pick a job that gives you a bad wage, then that's a shame, but it was your choice.

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    Re: How do you feel about income?

    I wasn't just talking about scarcity though. It's scarcity and value. If typewritters suddenly went scarce, I don't think that people would pay much for them.

    The energy crisis of the 70s was due to price controls. We didn't allow prices to rise, so we had long lines and shortages.

    Cartels are a bad thing, but if they let prices go high enough, then people will start going for the expensive supplies of those resources and their monopoly will be gone.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: How do you feel about income?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe1991 View Post

    About the only time I get upset is when I see like a school superintendent getting 300+k salaries while some school employees and beginning teachers are eating beans and rice.
    This I totally agree with.

    We hired some douchebag from California a few years ago to be the Superintendent of our ****ty school system and gave him a 300k salary.

    Last year we were firing school employees, but I'll bet he has been getting a cost of living raise every year.

    ****ing assholes.
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    Re: How do you feel about income?

    Perhaps people should live within their means and employers should just buck up and pay acceptable wages. That being said, ****ty pay is acceptable for ****ty work, i.e. McDonalds. Life isn't fair, work harder and you get on the Good side of "unfair".

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    Re: How do you feel about income?

    ^^What's acceptable? Be specific.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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