View Poll Results: Is racism wrong?

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  • Yes

    119 31.65%
  • No

    251 66.76%
  • There is no such thing as racism

    6 1.60%
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Thread: Is racism wrong?

  1. #181
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    Re: Is racism wrong?

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Wrong thread....
    Last edited by Partisan; 12-12-09 at 06:02 AM.

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    Re: Is racism wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Of course people tend to behave in similar ways, but to say that it's due to "human nature" is to say that people are innately programmed to behave in certain ways, which is wrong. You're essentially saying there's a biological basis for it, when no such basis has ever been found. People act in certain ways because they are socially conditioned to act in certain ways, not because it's in their biology to do so.
    Not to start the whole nature vs. nurture debate, but if you study cases of twins that are separated at birth you might be surprised how much genetics can affect your life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    1 + 1 = 2, not 10... sorry. I know that 1st grade was a long time ago,but seriously.
    I guess you didn't make it to the grade that explained binary.
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    Re: Is racism wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post


    1 + 1 = 2, not 10... sorry. I know that 1st grade was a long time ago,but seriously.
    They don't teach binary in 1st. grade, or at least they didn't 10010000111000111100011 years ago.
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    Re: Is racism wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Of course people tend to behave in similar ways, but to say that it's due to "human nature" is to say that people are innately programmed to behave in certain ways, which is wrong. You're essentially saying there's a biological basis for it, when no such basis has ever been found. People act in certain ways because they are socially conditioned to act in certain ways, not because it's in their biology to do so.
    You act as if this is a settled question. Not even close.

    In any event, I'm not claiming that racism is genetic, only that the tendency, or capacity, to judge people based on race (or other factors) is. So I wouldn't disagree with you.

  5. #185
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    Re: Is racism wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Only if you define racism as black vs. whites. Humans have tended to look down upon other humans who are different, who look different, or act differently from themselves forever.
    Not...not only. In agreement with what you stated above, Claude Levi-Straus (anthropologist) argues that "All people have always felt themselves superior to others." In this sense we can come to the comfortable position that this means that "racism" must have always existed.

    But another anthropoligists, Michel Leiris, argues that if we look at different societies in history we can't just make this easy assumption. "Many societies have displayed themselves with some group pride, but while the group regards itself as superior or priviledged compared with other groups, it makes no "racist" claims and, for instance, is not above entering into temporary alliances with other groups or providing itself with women from them."

    If we turn to the Mediterranean world, where there was considerable amount of contact with lighter skinned people in the North and darker people in the south, racism is difficult to find. Black people, especially, were viewed favorably by the anchient Egyptians, Hebrews, Greeks, and Romans. Even Moses married a Nubian woman for which the book of Numbers (somewhere) of the Bible stated that the "anger of the lord was aroused against those who objected."

    1) The anchient Greeks called some of their neighbors "barbarians" but that was only because they could not speak Greek.

    2) When Alexander the Great conquered Persia and India, ten thousand Greek soldiers married Hindu Indian women.

    3) In the Roman Empire, Roman slaves came from captured peoples of Africa, Asia, and Europe. In other words, slavery for the Romans was a matter of equal opportunity for all.

    4) In the late Middle Ages, European slaves were taken increasingly from areas north and west of the Caucusus.

    The identity of slavery to solely mean black Africans rose and originated in the Muslim world and North Africa. It was made illegal in this region (by the Qu'ran) to enslave a Jew or a Christian. What was left to fill the positions of slaves? As slaves from this region began to be exported to foriegn nations and regions, slavery became increasingly synonymous to the black skin color. After centuries had passed the Atlantic slave trade identified black Africans as the slave. Now it is important to recognize that in the end, slavery was abolished throughout the world where blacks were used, but only in the U.S. was there a predominant society crushing "racist" phenomena developed. This was a result of capitalism and protestant prescription (The Catholic church prescribed that black slaves in the Americas were to be taught Christianity, while the Protestant prescription was to treat them as beneath Christiandom and therefore "evil.") Whites viewed blacks as meaning one thing.... - inferior, ignorant, unable to understand morality, and forever heathen.

    Fast forward to the twentieth century. Nazi Germany altered the slave's identity to meaning Jew. They did not seek the poor as in anchient worlds. They did not seek a certain skin color as in the Atlantic Slave Trade. They sought a specific ethnic identity, which is why their brand of slavery has been argued to be "racism," though not because of skin color. Of course, scapegoating Jews had been an historical thing for Europeans, so the leap into slavery and butchery was inevitable.

    You are confusing group pride, which may be maintained by a tribe over another, with racism, which is typically about a certain skin color or entire race.




    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    That's what racism really is, the human tendency to look on anyone who is different from themselves as inferior to themselves.
    No it is not. This is just a simple guide line for people who are afraid of being tagged a racist. I have been inside many different cultures and populations in many third world countries and I know without a doubt that I (and many others) am superior to many....not because of skin color...but because of situation and circumstance. For example....Somalia is full of the wretched, the diseases, and the hopeless, yet there also exists an internationally recognized Somali Super Model who maintains a sort of superiority towards others. Another example would be Ethiopia. A population full of the uneducated and under priviledged, yet every Summer Olympics prove their superiority on the track. And is there not a sense of superiority in the world in terms of invention and ingenuity and the parts of the world where it comes from?

    The best way to break through this "everything is racism" barrier is to imagine a scenario where the world is about to explode and you have one life boat into space that can seat 100 people. Shall we choose from among the brightest and the most intellegent (which would mostly all come from the European/American/Asian theatre) or will we refrain from the "racist" stigma and head to Africa?


    This is that politicially correct hinderance that has people afraid to talk about others and fearful of any analytical work. It's this fear of "racism" that has people scared to say "blacks"...er..."African Americans"....er.....etc.
    Last edited by MSgt; 12-12-09 at 08:42 PM.

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    Re: Is racism wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    Now it is important to recognize that in the end, slavery was abolished throughout the world where blacks were used, but only in the U.S. was there a predominant society crushing "racist" phenomena developed.
    ....slight correction. South Africa was a second locale where "racism" became triumphant long after slavery.

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  7. #187
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    Re: Is racism wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    ...
    Fast forward to the twentieth century. Nazi Germany altered the slave's identity to meaning Jew. They did not seek the poor as in anchient worlds. They did not seek a certain skin color as in the Atlantic Slave Trade. They sought a specific ethnic identity, which is why their brand of slavery has been argued to be "racism," though not because of skin color. Of course, scapegoating Jews had been an historical thing for Europeans, so the leap into slavery and butchery was inevitable.
    It weren't just Jews who were used as slave-labour, but also a variety of undesirables, and ethnicities from conquered territories.
    And slavery was racism long before then. How do you think the keeping of fellow humans, specifically black Africans as property was justified?

    You are confusing group pride, which may be maintained by a tribe over another, with racism, which is typically about a certain skin color or entire race.
    That really depends on how a 'race' is defined, it's quite arbitrary. It could be defined by location and language, and be narrowed down to tribe.
    Skin colour is a very broad criterium.
    But for a notion of superiority to be racism, power to subdue and dominate needs to be exerted, regarding a neighbouring tribe/race as inferior is not racism by itself.
    This is that politicially correct hinderance that has people afraid to talk about others and fearful of any analytical work. It's this fear of "racism" that has people scared to say "blacks"...er..."African Americans"....er.....etc.
    I am not scared to say "blacks" or talk about others. But then, I don't have any theories about races to share, I think it's silly to assume inherent characteristics.

  8. #188
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    Re: Is racism wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by roderic View Post
    It weren't just Jews who were used as slave-labour, but also a variety of undesirables, and ethnicities from conquered territories.
    And slavery was racism long before then. How do you think the keeping of fellow humans, specifically black Africans as property was justified?
    ....perhaps you missed the 450 or so words I wrote in the same post prior to the word "Nazi." And it was the Jews part of the slave labor that was grounded in racism....not the hanicapped fella or the gypsy.

    Quote Originally Posted by roderic View Post
    But then, I don't have any theories about races to share, I think it's silly to assume inherent characteristics.
    I don't follow your meaning. I shared no "theories." These are matters of university study and they do make perfect sense.
    Last edited by MSgt; 12-18-09 at 01:41 AM.

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  9. #189
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    Re: Is racism wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    ....perhaps you missed the 450 or so words I wrote in the same post prior to the word "Nazi." And it was the Jews part of the slave labor that was grounded in racism....not the hanicapped fella or the gypsy.
    I read the preceding part, and if I had something to say about it I would have quoted it.
    I don't know what you meant to show with your listing, but making alliances with groups which are regarded as inferior, or recruiting slaves from different sources, does not imply an absence of racism.
    You have not mentioned characteristics of racism and shown that they were not present.
    But you are right that it is not easy to assess from our present point of view, the effort to systematically categorise races came later, with colonisation.

    No, the Jews were not the only 'inferior' race, slavs, for example, were also regarded as labour material for the Aryans, but they featured above the Jews.


    I don't follow your meaning. I shared no "theories." These are matters of university study and they do make perfect sense.
    Ah, I misunderstood, I thought you meant philosophising in public, which can easily be taken the wrong way - it's something I rarely do. I don't know which studies are proposed, but I have read before that this subject is politicised.

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    Re: Is racism wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by roderic View Post
    I read the preceding part, and if I had something to say about it I would have quoted it.
    Yet you replied as if you hadn't. You stated...


    "And slavery was racism long before then. How do you think the keeping of fellow humans, specifically black Africans as property was justified?"

    Those 450 words prior to "Nazi" state exactly the answer to your question.


    Quote Originally Posted by roderic View Post
    I don't know what you meant to show with your listing, but making alliances with groups which are regarded as inferior, or recruiting slaves from different sources, does not imply an absence of racism.
    In the manner in which we define racism today it most certainly does. Today's "racism" became a phenomena circa the Atlantic Slave Trade. before this, slaves were merely the poor or the captured of any color. "My" very brief list explains this.


    Quote Originally Posted by roderic View Post

    No, the Jews were not the only 'inferior' race, slavs, for example, were also regarded as labour material for the Aryans, but they featured above the Jews.
    I stated nothing about Jews being the only considered "inferior" race to the German. What I stated was that it was the Jewish part of the slave labor that personified the racism. This was true for centuries inside Europe and the Nazi Party was its culmination.

    Quote Originally Posted by roderic View Post
    Ah, I misunderstood, I thought you meant philosophising in public, which can easily be taken the wrong way - it's something I rarely do. I don't know which studies are proposed, but I have read before that this subject is politicised.
    No idea where you are coming from. It's actually pretty simple. Slaves are historical. Looking down upon others for their tribe, affiliation, or class status is historical. But "racism" is a fairly new concept and it has its roots in the Atlantic Slave Trade, which by that time, the slave identity was considered a dark skinned position. Long gone was the concept that captured whites were to be slaves (except in that extremely rare occasion).
    Last edited by MSgt; 12-19-09 at 02:32 AM.

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