View Poll Results: What is the Most Powerful Nation in Europe?

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  • Bundesrepublik Deutschland (Federal Republic of Germany)

    58 45.67%
  • United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

    46 36.22%
  • Cinquième République de la France (Fifth Republic of France)

    12 9.45%
  • other

    11 8.66%
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Thread: What is the most powerful nation in Europe?

  1. #211
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    Re: What is the most powerful nation in Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Roman heritage is irrelevant, Europe existed before Rome.
    Obviously no classical education, back to school with you.

    “Cicero’s true importance in the history of political thought lies in the fact that he gave to the Stoic doctrine of natural law a statement in which it was universally known throughout Western Europe from his own day down to the nineteenth century. From him it passed to the Roman lawyers and not less to the Fathers of the Church. The most important passages were quoted times without number throughout the Middle Ages. … its most striking passages had already been excerpted … and so had become matters of common knowledge.” George H. Sabine, A History of Political Theory, 1937"

    http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/c/cicero.htm
    Last edited by Djoop; 12-31-09 at 09:16 AM.

  2. #212
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    Re: What is the most powerful nation in Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoop View Post
    Obviously no classical education, back to school with you.

    “Cicero’s true importance in the history of political thought lies in the fact that he gave to the Stoic doctrine of natural law a statement in which it was universally known throughout Western Europe from his own day down to the nineteenth century. From him it passed to the Roman lawyers and not less to the Fathers of the Church. The most important passages were quoted times without number throughout the Middle Ages. … its most striking passages had already been excerpted … and so had become matters of common knowledge.” George H. Sabine, A History of Political Theory, 1937"

    Cicero [Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy]
    And you think a lack of Roman heritage makes it non-European.

    BS.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
    > Good to be back, but I'm only visiting for a few weeks. <

  3. #213
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    Re: What is the most powerful nation in Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    And you think a lack of Roman heritage makes it non-European.

    BS.
    No, I regard Russia as european. But you declared roman heritage irrelevant, and you will have to do better than that.

  4. #214
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    Re: What is the most powerful nation in Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoop View Post
    No, I regard Russia as european. But you declared roman heritage irrelevant, and you will have to do better than that.
    If you had made the argument that a contributing factor which defines a European state are certain cultural attributes which are derived from Roman heritage, then i would understand. But a lack of it is not enough to say Russia is not European so in this case it is irrelevant yes. But that wouldnt push aside the fact that "Europeans" are people of European descent, and a European nation is a nation geographically present in Europe, with no mention of Roman heritage.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
    > Good to be back, but I'm only visiting for a few weeks. <

  5. #215
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    Re: What is the most powerful nation in Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    If you had made the argument that a contributing factor which defines a European state are certain cultural attributes which are derived from Roman heritage, then i would understand. But a lack of it is not enough to say Russia is not European so in this case it is irrelevant yes. But that wouldnt push aside the fact that "Europeans" are people of European descent, and a European nation is a nation geographically present in Europe, with no mention of Roman heritage.
    There is an abundance of roman heritage in Russia, I allready showed you the connection between Cicero, the law, and the church. The orthodox church in itself traces its development back to the classical, roman period.

    The question what defines european is not only geographical, unless you're debating about geography. In terms of geography, Russia is partly european.
    Last edited by Djoop; 12-31-09 at 11:01 AM.

  6. #216
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    Re: What is the most powerful nation in Europe?

    In general in this debate I think a lot of people here tend to overestimate the UK, while forgetting Turkey and excluding Russia on various accounts.

    While its true that both Turkey and Russia have most their land in Asia, Russia at least have most of its important military stuff and population centers in Europe, including in non-Russian territory, for example Ukraine(which had a huge piece of old soviet militaty capability and industry).
    I myself may underestimate Germany in their current capacity, but I am very aware that Germany by far is the most powerful military nation in Europe when they so please to be, far ahead of everyone else, including Russia and Turkey.

    Its very interesting to add theoretical hegemony and potantial war scenarios into this mix, making Russia with all the natural resources a massive contender.
    Last edited by Maximus Zeebra; 12-31-09 at 11:13 AM.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  7. #217
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    Re: What is the most powerful nation in Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoop View Post
    There is an abundance of roman heritage in Russia, I allready showed you the connection between Cicero, the law, and the church. The orthodox church in itself traces its development back to the classical, roman period.

    The question what defines european is not only geographical, unless you're debating about geography. In terms of geography, Russia is partly european.
    Romanism in Russia originated via Byzantine influence rather than classical Roman as is the case for many other Romance cultures in Western Europe - even then, Orthodoxy is more Greek than Roman in any case.

  8. #218
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    Re: What is the most powerful nation in Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Warspite View Post
    Romanism in Russia originated via Byzantine influence rather than classical Roman as is the case for many other Romance cultures in Western Europe - even then, Orthodoxy is more Greek than Roman in any case.
    Nice opinion, but it's baseless and false.

    Tell me, where does the word tsar come from?

  9. #219
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    Re: What is the most powerful nation in Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoop View Post
    Nice opinion, but it's baseless and false.
    Not really, Russia was exposed to Romaic culture via the Byzantines whose culture had diverged from classical roman at that point.

    Tell me, where does the word tsar come from?
    Are you going to tell me next that Iran is a Roman culture because Shah is a cognate of Caesar?

  10. #220
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    Re: What is the most powerful nation in Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoop View Post
    Nice opinion, but it's baseless and false.

    Tell me, where does the word tsar come from?
    Tsar comes from Caesar. It came into use when Ivan the first married a descendent of Julius Caesar. And after that it stuck.

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