View Poll Results: What is the Most Powerful Nation in Europe?

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  • Bundesrepublik Deutschland (Federal Republic of Germany)

    58 45.67%
  • United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

    46 36.22%
  • Cinquième République de la France (Fifth Republic of France)

    12 9.45%
  • other

    11 8.66%
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Thread: What is the most powerful nation in Europe?

  1. #131
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    Re: What is the most powerful nation in Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Everywhere. But we are also free to take hollidays without risk of getting fired, and we are allowed to work in a safe environment with strong labour laws and protection. The European labour market is far more flexible than you believe. We have a minimum of hollidays we have to take every year and those are PAID. We also have a maximum of hours we can work in a row, in a week, in a month, a year an so fourth. We actually have the most generous system, while at the same time at least, if not far better businesses than in the US.
    So where's the "flexibility" in limiting the number of hours an employee may work and mandating the days a private business has to allow off?

    I can name at least one American helicopter that would not have been type certificated and it's manufacturer would have gone out of business if the company's engineers had been forbidden from putting in the hours needed before the revisions to FAR 27 would have scrapped the whole design.

    I can name a number of people who make their extra money by working extra hours.

    Also, you're improperly using the word "generous". Generosity is a act by an individual disbursing his own wealth. It's really damn easy to be "generous" towards yourself when you're digging into someone else's pockets, now isn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    What is wrong with helping the weak?
    They never learn to help themselves.

    And the process should be a matter of private conscience, not a fiat by imposed force.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Should we just throw them on the streets like Americans?
    It works for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Should we just exploit people and use them as human garbage afterwards, like you even do your heroes(vietnam veterans who fought for the country)?
    You really don't have any clue what you're talking about, do you?

    Americans supported their vets. The socialist whiny hippy pigs that have infested our government are the source of the despicable acts you describe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    What is wrong with paying unemployment,
    Because money stolen from me and given to someone else is money stolen from me.

    There some reason workers can't contract with a private insurance company for "unemployment insurance" if they feel a need for it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    what is wrong with mandatory health care for everyone?
    I don't want to pay for someone else's health.

    I'm easy. People that don't lead lives that enable themselves to be indenpent of my wallet can die, the sooner the better.

    If you care so much, you can mail me some money to make up for my losses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    In addition to mandatory health care, people are also free to choose private health care. Yes we have that also.
    Of course you have that. Otherwise the politicians would have to rub elbows with the unwashed masses. Every socialized healthcare scam has that escape for the politicians who would otherwise have to come up with some other scam to avoid living under the rules they impose on the rest of us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    On the contrary people CAN be fired, they just have to be payed.
    Then they're not "fired", they're on vacation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Companies cant just fire people as they want, if it was like that, it would suck big time.
    You mean the worker would have incentive to work and produce and be a profitable employee of the company? What a shame, forcing people to grow up like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    European under 25 unemployment stands at 20.7%, while American under 25 unemployment stands at 19.1.
    And after the US economy recovers, the European under 25 unemployment rate will STILL be 1/5 while in the US young people will find jobs again.

  2. #132
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    Re: What is the most powerful nation in Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Great Britain is comprised of England, Scotland, and Wales only. Its very common for people to add NI in it but it's not right.
    Not to be a smart ass, but isn't it England, Scotland, Wales, and Kells part of GB?
    Last edited by Shadow Serious; 12-08-09 at 12:42 AM. Reason: forgot ending phrase
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  3. #133
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    Re: What is the most powerful nation in Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    West European countries are market leaders in all segment, we have the biggest global companies. Europe is quite innovative, but yes lagging behind the US. That is the only US strenght over Europe, invention and innovation. But that will turn around with time also. To answer your question however, business is flourishing in all of eastern Europe, north and south. Business is and has for a long time flourished in places like Ireland, Spain.. All of Europe is flourishing for business actually, and our business regulations and ease of doing business is improving every year.
    Business the government allows to flourish, flourishes yes. While some of the countries in Europe are tops in production, you'll not catch the US in terms of innovation and invention. We don't produce product much anymore, we produce technology and sell that technology to other countries so that they can produce it. The US has amongst the best Universities in the world, and we're not afraid to use it. There's a reason why it's very easy to get into this country if you're coming to study science and engineering. Sure, some percentage of those people go back, but America also keeps a good chunk of them as well. In essence, bleeding off the world's smart people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    What do you mean? I suppose I should answer something ordinary like creating a business, being part of creating a business, taking part in politics, or all other areas that you would say about the US. Mention one area where US people better can engage in the system than Europe. Perhaps you dont know it, but Europe is not only the freest market in the world, but also the best regulated one.
    Europe is not the freest, you can not be the most regulated and free simultaneously as the two are naturally opposed to each other. There are too many problems, highlighted in France with their socialist structure that doesn't allow turn over, incorporation of immigrants, and high unemployment for younger sectors. While you can't get away with no regulation, the goal is to regulate just enough to encourage free market capitalism. Not corporate socialism, that's not a free system. That's merely a house of cards, pretending to have a free market, when in fact everything is supported through the State. It stifles innovation and invention, which is why you can't catch up to the US.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    We have many billionaires, millionaires and so fourth, just like America. Actually I believe even with our socialist policies we about equal Americans in billionaires and millionaires.
    Anybody can get billionaires, they'll appear in any system. What you want to look at is the social mobility, can people move classes easily enough. There are rich people in Europe the same as the US. But how many are old money rich and how many got there through blood, sweat, and tears. There is a lot more social mobility in America than other places.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Everywhere. But we are also free to take hollidays without risk of getting fired, and we are allowed to work in a safe environment with strong labour laws and protection. The European labour market is far more flexible than you believe. We have a minimum of hollidays we have to take every year and those are PAID. We also have a maximum of hours we can work in a row, in a week, in a month, a year an so fourth. We actually have the most generous system, while at the same time at least, if not far better businesses than in the US.
    First off, so do Americans. You don't think people can't get paid vacation? That there aren't laws for overtime? That you'd get fired if you call in sick once? Pathetic, that's dumb and either based out of ignorance or outright lie. And as for the maximum hours thingie, that's DUMB. If someone wants to work longer, there is no reason why they shouldn't be able to. Let them profit from working harder, they are entitled to the sweat of their brow. Besides, I can guarantee you there are professions which don't heed those limitations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    What is wrong with helping the weak? Should we just throw them on the streets like Americans? Should we just exploit people and use them as human garbage afterwards, like you even do your heroes(vietnam veterans who fought for the country)?
    Lies and hyperbole. Come back when you grow up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    What is wrong with paying unemployment, what is wrong with mandatory health care for everyone? In addition to mandatory health care, people are also free to choose private health care. Yes we have that also.
    While healthcare is an issue which needs to be intelligently resolved, we have unemployment, we have welfare, we have all sorts of public assistance for the poor. You sitting there and pretending we don't is just ignorant, anti-American ranting as per usual with you. Either learn what it is that you're talking about, or keep your mouth shut about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    On the contrary people CAN be fired, they just have to be payed. Companies cant just fire people as they want, if it was like that, it would suck big time.
    Not in places such as Germany or France. Because of the socialist guarantees on jobs, it makes it exceedingly difficult to get old people out the door so you can get young people in the job. And being fired is exceedingly difficult.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    European under 25 unemployment stands at 20.7%, while American under 25 unemployment stands at 19.1. What is your point? Not a dramatic difference in my opinion.
    On average, but not for places like France. Additionally, the unemployment rate for our 25 and younger is higher due to more people in that age bracket being in University. I'd have to look at the stats more carefully to see what has been cherry picked out and what hasn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    So what? Europe is also that.
    Not in spades.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  4. #134
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    Re: What is the most powerful nation in Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Business the government allows to flourish, flourishes yes. While some of the countries in Europe are tops in production, you'll not catch the US in terms of innovation and invention. We don't produce product much anymore, we produce technology and sell that technology to other countries so that they can produce it. The US has amongst the best Universities in the world, and we're not afraid to use it. There's a reason why it's very easy to get into this country if you're coming to study science and engineering. Sure, some percentage of those people go back, but America also keeps a good chunk of them as well. In essence, bleeding off the world's smart people.
    Yes, I totally agree, you have the best universities. But the average is most likely just as good or better in Europe.

    And yes, you do have the best tradition for innovation, invention and technology. But that is not just because of the way your model is, I think its deeply rooted in the American spirit.

    However, Europe also is quite innovative.. But yes, lots of space to catch up with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Europe is not the freest, you can not be the most regulated and free simultaneously as the two are naturally opposed to each other.
    Oppositions often doesnt contradict each other in result. Europe has the freest market in the world, yet the most and best regulated one at the same time. Where else in the world can you do business freely in 30+ diverse countries and markets?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    There are too many problems, highlighted in France with their socialist structure that doesn't allow turn over, incorporation of immigrants, and high unemployment for younger sectors.
    Totally wrong. Socialism is a positive factors. France was the least hit country by the financial crisis(in OECD) and they were first to recover. Contrary to what you believe, unlike the US or many European countries, France is possibly the most diverse in the fact they do not rely on any single sector of the economy. Like for example UK rely on finance, America on the stock market and consumption. France doesnt have a vulnerable economy like that, and surely social protection helps with that.
    Youth unemployment in France is not that much higher than the US.

    And, French companies are among the most successfull in the world, even in traditional US/UK sectors like oil/banking/finance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    While you can't get away with no regulation, the goal is to regulate just enough to encourage free market capitalism. Not corporate socialism, that's not a free system.
    We have people socialism not corporate socialism. Only America forced European countries to do corporate bailouts as well. We have a tradition of not regulating the market in that way, but in preventative ways(in Europe/regulation).


    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That's merely a house of cards, pretending to have a free market, when in fact everything is supported through the State. It stifles innovation and invention, which is why you can't catch up to the US.
    The free market of Europe is the biggest in the world. Government spending is about the same in the US as in Europe. As % of GDP US government spending is bigger I believe. I am dragging these numbers out of my head, but I believe EU-25 government spending was 2.6 trillion in 2007 while American government spending was 2.4 trillion. Correct me if I am wrong. I dont have time ATM to find that stat, but I will if you need it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Anybody can get billionaires, they'll appear in any system. What you want to look at is the social mobility, can people move classes easily enough. There are rich people in Europe the same as the US. But how many are old money rich and how many got there through blood, sweat, and tears. There is a lot more social mobility in America than other places. .
    Europe and the US have about the same numbers of billionaries, millionaries and so fourt, from the same ways. THe US have slightly more, while Europe have a lot less poor people.




    GTG, I will address the rest later.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  5. #135
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    Re: What is the most powerful nation in Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Totally wrong. Socialism is a positive factors. France was the least hit country by the financial crisis(in OECD) and they were first to recover. Contrary to what you believe, unlike the US or many European countries, France is possibly the most diverse in the fact they do not rely on any single sector of the economy. Like for example UK rely on finance, America on the stock market and consumption. France doesnt have a vulnerable economy like that, and surely social protection helps with that.
    Youth unemployment in France is not that much higher than the US.

    And, French companies are among the most successfull in the world, even in traditional US/UK sectors like oil/banking/finance.
    Less you are a Muslim immigrant. Then you're f'd in the a.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #136
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    Re: What is the most powerful nation in Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Partisan View Post
    Many people don't see Russia as a part of Europe....
    Erroneous, but true.....
    Who would those people be Russians and europeans?
    The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

  7. #137
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    Re: What is the most powerful nation in Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    Not to be a smart ass, but isn't it England, Scotland, Wales, and Kells part of GB?
    Great Britain is England, Scotland and Wales.

    United Kingdom is England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

    The British Isles is England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, and The Republic of Ireland (where the town of Kells is located)
    Don't work out, work in.

    Never eat anything that's served in a bucket.

  8. #138
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    Re: What is the most powerful nation in Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Gerstle View Post
    Americans want to believe it is Great Britain, but most Europeans and geopolitical analysts say it is Germany. What do you think?
    The most powerful force in Europe will always be Germany. It's in their blood to kick ass and take names. If the rest of the World took Germany off its leash...I'd consider joining the German army ASAP, before War breaks out.



    DEUTSCHLAND! DEUTSCHLAND ÜBER ALLES, ÜBER ALLES IN DER WELT!
    Last edited by EpicDude86; 12-09-09 at 12:48 AM.

  9. #139
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    Re: What is the most powerful nation in Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    The most powerful force in Europe will always be Germany. It's in their blood to kick ass and take names. If the rest of the World took Germany off its leash...I'd consider joining the German army ASAP, before War breaks out.



    DEUTSCHLAND! DEUTSCHLAND ÜBER ALLES, ÜBER ALLES IN DER WELT!
    Thats pretty offensive but judging from your previous posts you never seemed to be one for political correctness. Is that a good thing? I have no idea.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
    > Good to be back, but I'm only visiting for a few weeks. <

  10. #140
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    Re: What is the most powerful nation in Europe?

    Sorry about that, here is the rest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    First off, so do Americans. You don't think people can't get paid vacation? That there aren't laws for overtime? That you'd get fired if you call in sick once? Pathetic, that's dumb and either based out of ignorance or outright lie. And as for the maximum hours thingie, that's DUMB. If someone wants to work longer, there is no reason why they shouldn't be able to. Let them profit from working harder, they are entitled to the sweat of their brow. Besides, I can guarantee you there are professions which don't heed those limitations.
    The labour market in Europe is flexible, therefor there are exceptions, but everyone enjoys a much higher degree of protection in Europe than in America.
    I know Americans can get paid vacation, but by regulation, Americans have much less paid vacation days, and they dont even take their vacation days. IN Europe its mandatory to have vacation, and you cannot take pay instead for example. That is good in my opinion, I would have it no other way. Afterall, we are not machines, we are suppose to live our lives also.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Lies and hyperbole. Come back when you grow up.
    Nah, its not, its called the truth. You just dont understand helping other people, nor doing the right thing or anything like that. Nor do you understand socialism.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    While healthcare is an issue which needs to be intelligently resolved, we have unemployment, we have welfare, we have all sorts of public assistance for the poor. You sitting there and pretending we don't is just ignorant, anti-American ranting as per usual with you. Either learn what it is that you're talking about, or keep your mouth shut about it.
    I never said Americans have nothing. I just said we have far superior rights in all classes here in Europe in all type of welfare, and our life will never be ruined if we become ill, and we will never suffer economically no matter if poor, medium, rich or superrich.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Not in places such as Germany or France. Because of the socialist guarantees on jobs, it makes it exceedingly difficult to get old people out the door so you can get young people in the job. And being fired is exceedingly difficult.
    So what? Its good that its difficult to get rid of people. Its not a corporate state, its a people state. People should have protection from companies. Old people out the door? You think it should be easy to fire someone who worked in a company for 30 years? Thats ridiculous.



    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    On average, but not for places like France. Additionally, the unemployment rate for our 25 and younger is higher due to more people in that age bracket being in University. I'd have to look at the stats more carefully to see what has been cherry picked out and what hasn't.
    Youth unemployment is 10% in what you classify as "difficult" Germany. And 24.7% in France. American is 19.1%. Not huge difference anyways. Not worth mentioning, unless you are an American who cherry pick your "belief statistics" to prove yourself wrong, instead of being a European who actually looks at the statistics to prove the American cherry picker wrong.



    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Not in spades.
    Perhaps not, but in hearts.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

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