View Poll Results: Should counselors be allowed to refuse treatment that violate their morals?

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  • Absolutely not! This is flagrant discrimination!

    10 28.57%
  • They should attend diversity and tolerance seminars to educate them

    3 8.57%
  • Patients should chose the counselor who suits them

    2 5.71%
  • They should be required to refer the patient to the appropriate colleague

    7 20.00%
  • They should refuse any patient they don't want to treat!

    13 37.14%
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Thread: Should a Christian counselor be allowed to refuse to counsel gay couples?

  1. #11
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    Re: Should a Christian counselor be allowed to refuse to counsel gay couples?

    If they work for the government, the government has every right to tell them to conform to industry standards concerning homosexuality-- and counsel who they're told to counsel, no backchat.

    If they work for a private practice, their boss has every right to tell them whether or not they're allowed to counsel homosexual couples, and the right to fire them for breaking policy in either direction.

    If they work for themselves, the couple in question can bitch about it to other gay couples who will boycott the counselor-- and both sides will be happier.

  2. #12
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    Re: Should a Christian counselor be allowed to refuse to counsel gay couples?

    This question is being posed in a weird way. The article is about a case of an employee trying to get the government to force his employer to allow him to refuse clients based on his personal prejudice against them, but in the OP you are asking the opposite thing- should the government force councilors to provide mental health services that violate their individual religious and/or moral codes.

    Certainly it would be ridiculous for the government to force companies to allow their employees to discriminate against their customers... That is just insane, and that's what this guy was requesting.

    On the question of whether the government should prohibit councilors from refusing to treat gay couples... That's a tougher one. My gut instinct is that the idea of forcing a church councilor, for example, to treat gay couples seems wrong... But at the same time, certainly a business should not be allowed to refuse to sell their products to people based on their sexual orientation. So I dunno. Maybe an exception needs to be made for churches, but businesses should be prohibited from discrimination? Not sure how to handle it.

  3. #13
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    Re: Should a Christian counselor be allowed to refuse to counsel gay couples?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    If they work for the government, the government has every right to tell them to conform to industry standards concerning homosexuality-- and counsel who they're told to counsel, no backchat.

    If they work for a private practice, their boss has every right to tell them whether or not they're allowed to counsel homosexual couples, and the right to fire them for breaking policy in either direction.

    If they work for themselves, the couple in question can bitch about it to other gay couples who will boycott the counselor-- and both sides will be happier.
    My position precisely. This is not an issue of whether or not the counselor should counsel the couple or not. It is an issue of employment practices. If it is in his contract that he needs to take cases assigned to him, regardless, either he does, or he leaves/is fired. If he works for himself, he can decide whether or not he takes the case. This has nothing to do with discrimination.
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  4. #14
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    Re: Should a Christian counselor be allowed to refuse to counsel gay couples?

    Makes you wonder who the Hell is stupid enough to think they can benefit from seeing a counselor who's treating them at gunpoint.

    And yeah, the counselor in question should be fired, both for refusing to do his job and for trying to get the government to force his employer to allow him not to do his job. Honestly, I'm on the fence about whether or not he needs reeducation-- but there's no legal framework under which to try him.

  5. #15
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    Re: Should a Christian counselor be allowed to refuse to counsel gay couples?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    Makes you wonder who the Hell is stupid enough to think they can benefit from seeing a counselor who's treating them at gunpoint.
    LOL. Yeah. I mean, in reality very few gay couples would choose to go to a couples counciler that was clearly uncomfortable with homosexuality. So it's probably one of those symbolic issues more than a practical issue. The possible exception is a church councilor... I can imagine a gay couple wanting to see the councilor from their church and not really having the option to shop around to find one that is happy to help them, but I'm not comfortable forcing church councilors to do anything whatsoever since it seems like it would violate the establishment clause, so that solves that one.

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    Re: Should a Christian counselor be allowed to refuse to counsel gay couples?

    Most people seem to have got it, but "Relate", the employer, is not the NHS, but a national UK charity offering counselling and support through 2,500 counselors. A snippet from their homepage sets the scene.

    "Relate offers advice, relationship counselling, sex therapy, workshops, mediation, consultations and support face-to-face, by phone and through this website."

    Relate - the relationship people

  7. #17
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    Re: Should a Christian counselor be allowed to refuse to counsel gay couples?

    Any employer should be allowed to require their employees to do their job, regardless of whether that employer is the government or a charity. The fact that the guy got fired is not discrimination, and hopefully the government throws out his case.
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  8. #18
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    Re: Should a Christian counselor be allowed to refuse to counsel gay couples?

    Quote Originally Posted by MyOwnDrum View Post
    A Christian counselor in Britain got sacked because he refused to counsel a gay couple regarding their sex life. Do you think this should be allowed? Should insurance agencies, or the government, force counselors to provide mental health services that violate their individual religious and/or moral codes?

    Christian counsellor who refused to offer sex advice to gay couples fails in religious discrimination claim | Mail Online
    what is "Relate"? a church can certainly choose whom they counsel. but if he was employed in the gov't or private sector, no way.


    that said, how could he possibly help a gay couple, anyway? ;-)

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  9. #19
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    Re: Should a Christian counselor be allowed to refuse to counsel gay couples?

    Quote Originally Posted by MyOwnDrum View Post
    My concern here is, will the introduction of a more universal, government sponsored healthcare in the United States lead to this type of infringement of individual rights here?
    is it an infringement when the counselor is employed in the gov't or private sector?

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  10. #20
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    Re: Should a Christian counselor be allowed to refuse to counsel gay couples?

    great point.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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