View Poll Results: Was government takeover of transit a good idea?

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    24 53.33%
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    21 46.67%
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Thread: Should the government be in charge of public transportation?

  1. #41
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    Re: Should the government be in charge of public transportation?

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    The Constitution doesn't endorse any policy, except slavery, which was amended out. It's a very rough blueprint, not a document that goes into policy nitty gritty. Though one could argue that amtrak, which crosses state lines and is important for commerce, can be justified somewhere in the constitution... Now where could that be...
    You're basically arguing that the LAW OF THE LAND is meaningless. Yeah, I'm not buying it.

    And you're welcome to buy a few buses and start your own bus line. No one is stopping you, if you think you can do it better.
    Except that you can't offer prices that are lower than the government. It's what some would like to call "unfair competition," except when I use that phrase, I have a concrete definition.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
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  2. #42
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    Re: Should the government be in charge of public transportation?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    You're basically arguing that the LAW OF THE LAND is meaningless. Yeah, I'm not buying it.
    Please explain how I'm arguing that, since that was not my intent.

    Except that you can't offer prices that are lower than the government. It's what some would like to call "unfair competition," except when I use that phrase, I have a concrete definition.
    Is there a law saying you can't run a bus system for cheaper than the government's?
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

  3. #43
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    Re: Should the government be in charge of public transportation?

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Please explain how I'm arguing that, since that was not my intent.
    What does enumerated powers mean to you?

    Is there a law saying you can't run a bus system for cheaper than the government's?
    It's called economics. Municipal bus systems are subsidized to the extent that there's no way that a private company can offer cheaper service.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  4. #44
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    Re: Should the government be in charge of public transportation?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    What does enumerated powers mean to you?
    The ability to pass laws regarding interstate commerce was en enumerated power. Amtrak definately effects interstate commerce.

    It's called economics. Municipal bus systems are subsidized to the extent that there's no way that a private company can offer cheaper service.
    So then the government offers a service at a lower price that people use and that benefits the economy... whats the problem here?
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

  5. #45
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    Re: Should the government be in charge of public transportation?

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    The ability to pass laws regarding interstate commerce was en enumerated power. Amtrak definately effects interstate commerce.
    Is general welfare an enumerated power?

    So then the government offers a service at a lower price that people use and that benefits the economy... whats the problem here?
    It's subsidized, it's a waste of resources, and what we get is a product that could be offered better by the private sector. The government won't go for automated trains because of unions. Stations would probably be nicer. NYC train stations haven't been renovated since they were opened.

    So we get a waste of resources, and a product that's not as good. Great tradeoff!

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  6. #46
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    Re: Should the government be in charge of public transportation?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    It's subsidized, it's a waste of resources, and what we get is a product that could be offered better by the private sector. The government won't go for automated trains because of unions. Stations would probably be nicer. NYC train stations haven't been renovated since they were opened.

    So we get a waste of resources, and a product that's not as good. Great tradeoff!
    Back to micro principles: [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadweight_loss"]deadweight loss[/ame]
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  7. #47
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    Re: Should the government be in charge of public transportation?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Is general welfare an enumerated power?
    Irrelevant. I'm talking about interstate commerce.

    It's subsidized, it's a waste of resources, and what we get is a product that could be offered better by the private sector. The government won't go for automated trains because of unions. Stations would probably be nicer. NYC train stations haven't been renovated since they were opened.

    So we get a waste of resources, and a product that's not as good. Great tradeoff!
    So the public bus system is cheaper in the end, which I'm sure consumers prefer over cleaner stations, but if you think people would prefer a cleaner station you can always try to have that be your marketing point.
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

  8. #48
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    Re: Should the government be in charge of public transportation?

    Quick question; how competitive would this market be if left only in private hands?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  9. #49
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    Re: Should the government be in charge of public transportation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Quick question; how competitive would this market be if left only in private hands?
    Under the current framework of roads that are paid by via a gas tax and not tolls, not very competitive outside of very dense areas (like Manhattan).

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  10. #50
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    Re: Should the government be in charge of public transportation?

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Irrelevant. I'm talking about interstate commerce.
    I just want to know how far you're willing to interpret things in the constitution.

    So the public bus system is cheaper in the end, which I'm sure consumers prefer over cleaner stations, but if you think people would prefer a cleaner station you can always try to have that be your marketing point.
    Consumers would choose in a free market.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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