View Poll Results: Worst 20th Century President

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  • Theodore Roosevelt

    3 1.90%
  • Woodrow Wilson

    12 7.59%
  • Herbert Hoover

    18 11.39%
  • Franklin Delano Roosevelt

    26 16.46%
  • Harry Truman

    1 0.63%
  • Lyndon Baines Johnson

    3 1.90%
  • Richard Nixon

    15 9.49%
  • James Earl Carter

    38 24.05%
  • William Jefferson Clinton

    6 3.80%
  • Other (Specify)

    36 22.78%
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Thread: Worst 20th Century President

  1. #261
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    Re: Worst 20th Century President

    Quote Originally Posted by USA-1 View Post
    And it was Reagan that popularized deficit spending and he invented "the bailout"
    Let's not mischaracterize. Deficit spending has been around for much longer than the history of this country. As for bailouts, it's so convenient of you to ignore Chrysler. What Was The Chrysler Bailout? - Political History: The Chrysler Bail Out

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  2. #262
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    Re: Worst 20th Century President

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Let's not mischaracterize. Deficit spending has been around for much longer than the history of this country. As for bailouts, it's so convenient of you to ignore Chrysler. What Was The Chrysler Bailout? - Political History: The Chrysler Bail Out
    The Chrysler bailout was nothing compared to the saving and loan bailout.
    The Chrysler bailout was just a government loan guarantee of private money. It cost taxpayers zero. The S&L bailout cost taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars.
    Do you see the difference? I do believe it is you that is mischaracterizing.
    Last edited by USA_1; 02-08-10 at 12:03 PM.
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

  3. #263
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    Re: Worst 20th Century President

    Quote Originally Posted by USA-1 View Post
    The Chrysler bailout was nothing compared to the saving and loan bailout.
    The Chrysler bailout was just a government loan guarantee of private money. It cost taxpayers zero. The S&L bailout cost taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars.
    Do you see the difference? I do believe it is you that is mischaracterizing.
    Just because something makes a profit does not mean that it is no cost to us.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  4. #264
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    Re: Worst 20th Century President

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Just because something makes a profit does not mean that it is no cost to us.
    No government money changed hands. The government just guaranteed private loans to Chrysler. It cost us nothing. Zero Nadda.
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

  5. #265
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    Re: Worst 20th Century President

    Quote Originally Posted by USA-1 View Post
    No government money changed hands. The government just guaranteed private loans to Chrysler. It cost us nothing. Zero Nadda.
    No, the government gave Chrysler money. That means during that time we had capital goods sent to a failing company instead of to a succeeding company. That's the cost, even if it did turn a profit.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  6. #266
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    Re: Worst 20th Century President

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    No, the government gave Chrysler money. That means during that time we had capital goods sent to a failing company instead of to a succeeding company. That's the cost, even if it did turn a profit.
    No, the government gave no money to Chrysler during the first bailout in the 70s. Private lenders lent Chrysler money and the government guaranteed those loans. That's all the government did was guarantee the loans. The lenders made a profit on those loans and it cost the government nothing.
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

  7. #267
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    Re: Worst 20th Century President

    Quote Originally Posted by USA-1 View Post
    No, the government gave no money to Chrysler during the first bailout in the 70s. Private lenders lent Chrysler money and the government guaranteed those loans. That's all the government did was guarantee the loans. The lenders made a profit on those loans and it cost the government nothing.
    That's not no cost. That's still capital going to Chrysler because the government guaranteed the loan. It's basically the same thing as if government had made the loan itself. A loan that otherwise would not have gone to Chrysler went to Chrysler because of government intervention.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  8. #268
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    Re: Worst 20th Century President

    Quote Originally Posted by USA-1 View Post
    Yeah, they forget about the savings and loan collapse and bailout, the Iran contra affair, the 240 marines murdered in Lebanon, the October surprise, and all the indictments and convictions of Reagans officials.
    When something is repeated often and long enough people believe it.


    And it was Reagan that popularized deficit spending and he invented "the bailout"

    The savings and loan crisis of the 1980s and 1990s (commonly referred to as the S&L crisis) was the failure of 747 savings and loan associations (S&Ls aka thrifts). A Savings and Loan is a financial institution in the United States that accepts savings deposits and makes mortgage, car and other personal loans to individual members. The ultimate cost of the crisis is estimated to have totaled around $160.1 billion, about $124.6 billion of which was directly paid for by the US government—that is, the US taxpayer, either directly or through charges on their savings and loan accounts[1]—which contributed to the large budget deficits of the early 1990s..
    Yes, yes, but you missed the point. He conquered Granada!

  9. #269
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    Re: Worst 20th Century President

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    That's not no cost. That's still capital going to Chrysler because the government guaranteed the loan. It's basically the same thing as if government had made the loan itself. A loan that otherwise would not have gone to Chrysler went to Chrysler because of government intervention.
    So? It's private capital that turned a profit for the lenders. It was only a billon or so anyway and banks made money. They were happy. Reagan's S&L crisis cost taxpayers over 180 billion. You can't see the difference?
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

  10. #270
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    Re: Worst 20th Century President

    Quote Originally Posted by USA-1 View Post
    So? It's private capital that turned a profit for the lenders. It was only a billon or so anyway and banks made money. They were happy. Reagan's S&L crisis cost taxpayers over 180 billion. You can't see the difference?
    Yes I can see the difference, but it doesn't mean that the Chrysler bailout wasn't a waste of money.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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