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Do you think a religeous revolution is coming in this country?

Do you think a religeous revolution is coming in this country?


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Tax cuts is not a social issue, and has nothing to do with abortion and gay rights.

Oh but it very much is and contextually it very much does. When prominent right wingers say 'don't raise taxes' or cut taxes they don't say it's because only the people who have the most money are the ones who get taxed. They say it because it will affect the economy and that in turn will harm the poor or the elderly or the military families or whatever poster child conservatives are using this week.Raising/cutting taxes is very much a social issue as that is how it is argued.

How is this related to abortion and gay rights? Well as long as you can keep people excited about certain issues you can get them to agree with anything else can't you? Do you think the majority of poor right wing voters really benefit from the millions in tax cuts that companies get? How did that work for the first half of the 21st century and the end of the 20th? Not too well considering the economic **** sandwich we're all eating. How did social conservatives gain power in the 90s? Through a MORAL agenda. The Contract with America was reliant on a Christian conservative agenda that only pushed tax cuts through the back door.

After the Stupak amendment or whatever that thing is called, nobody is arguing that Obama's health plan will fund abortions. They oppose it for completely unrelated reasons.

I don't really see what you're trying to argue here.

NCFY said:
they use their supporters passion over things like abortion to get things like lower taxes for the top 3% passed
 
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You think that man will evolve out of the emotion of fear then? I think that there is a distinct difference between the idea of understanding that there is no god and the emotions of wanting there to be one.

Yes, I do think that we will evolve beyond fear of the unknown, and beyond fear of people ectt..... Let me just point, this out Fear of a name increases the fear of thing it self. In other words, learn what god is all about before you start to fear him.
 
Yes, I do think that we will evolve beyond fear of the unknown, and beyond fear of people ectt..... Let me just point, this out Fear of a name increases the fear of thing it self. In other words, learn what god is all about before you start to fear him.

The fear that people have is not of God, but of Death, what is Unknown and what it is to be unloved.

How do you propose that people overcome their fear of stopping to exist forever? How do people learn about what is in the unknown especially if we are literally unable to know anything about it, hence the term... unknown. How do people become secure about feeling unloved. To be universally and unconditionally loved by God reassures people in a way that a spouse or child never can.

I think that the human condition and doubt about what I spoke of above will never be absent, simply because it is a part of what makes us the humans that we are.
 
Oh but it very much is and contextually it very much does. When prominent right wingers say 'don't raise taxes' or cut taxes they don't say it's because only the people who have the most money are the ones who get taxed. They say it because it will affect the economy and that in turn will harm the poor or the elderly or the military families or whatever poster child conservatives are using this week.Raising/cutting taxes is very much a social issue as that is how it is argued.

How is this related to abortion and gay rights? Well as long as you can keep people excited about certain issues you can get them to agree with anything else can't you? Do you think the majority of poor right wing voters really benefit from the millions in tax cuts that companies get? How did that work for the first half of the 21st century and the end of the 20th? Not too well considering the economic **** sandwich we're all eating. How did social conservatives gain power in the 90s? Through a MORAL agenda. The Contract with America was reliant on a Christian conservative agenda that only pushed tax cuts through the back door.

I see what your theory is, but is there any proof of it?

I mean you don't have to personally benefit from a policy to support it. How many heterosexual social liberals benefit from gay marriage?
 
I see what your theory is, but is there any proof of it?

What kind of proof would you like? The fact that - after 100 years, a handful of Republican Presidents, Republican majorities in Congress and right wing religious movements claiming to take America back to Christianity - American culture has done nothing but move culturally to the left is plenty of proof.

Meanwhile social conservatives are still trying to argue that abortion should be banned and gays shouldn't marry. And for what? 20 years ago it would have been unthinkable for gay marriage to lose by 5%. Now it is a reality. 10 years from now who can say it won't win by that very 5%?

So after all that what do social conservatives have left that they can slip through from their agenda and actually get accomplished? Cutting taxes and pro-Israeli interventionism in the Middle East. That is it.

I mean you don't have to personally benefit from a policy to support it. How many heterosexual social liberals benefit from gay marriage?

Who said anything about personally benefiting? What is being argued is that the entire anti-abortion anti-gay marriage angle is nothing more than a smoke screen to get other **** passed through.
 
How do you propose that people overcome their fear of stopping to exist forever? How do people learn about what is in the unknown especially if we are literally unable to know anything about it, hence the term... unknown. How do people become secure about feeling unloved. To be universally and unconditionally loved by God reassures people in a way that a spouse or child never can.


I am a paranormal investigator, I study things that are out of the norm, and I am not scared of things like ghost ectt. Because, I study them. I consider study things in order to get to know what your afraid of, and that way you can't be afraid of what you know about right. Like how, I am not scared of death. because I study it as a hobby.

I think that the human condition and doubt about what I spoke of above will never be absent, simply because it is a part of what makes us the humans that we are.

I agree, it is apart of the human condition, but you can learn about things to make you conferrable with your life.
 
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What kind of proof would you like? The fact that - after 100 years, a handful of Republican Presidents, Republican majorities in Congress and right wing religious movements claiming to take America back to Christianity - American culture has done nothing but move culturally to the left is plenty of proof.

When has any president ever claimed to want to "take America back to Christianity"? Possibly Reagan, I suppose, but even if that's the case you have the causation wrong. People want to "take America back to Christianity" because America has moved culturally to the left. And by the 80's that move had ended.

Meanwhile social conservatives are still trying to argue that abortion should be banned and gays shouldn't marry. And for what? 20 years ago it would have been unthinkable for gay marriage to lose by 5%.

Did you not just answer your own question?
I mean, is everyone supposed to switch to the new, "progressive" position at the same time? 20 years ago everyone was against gay marriage, not just the "religious right". Do you expect the people who are opposed to changing tradition in general to approve of such a thing so quickly?



So after all that what do social conservatives have left that they can slip through from their agenda and actually get accomplished? Cutting taxes and pro-Israeli interventionism in the Middle East. That is it.

Okay, but that is part of the conservative agenda, not the social conservative agenda. The fact that most conservatives happen to be social conservatives, and vice versa, doesn't change that fact.

Who said anything about personally benefiting?

--->
Do you think the majority of poor right wing voters really benefit from the millions in tax cuts that companies get?


What is being argued is that the entire anti-abortion anti-gay marriage angle is nothing more than a smoke screen to get other **** passed through.

And what I'm saying is that that's BS. Just because they haven't been successful in stopping the momentum of the pro-gay marriage movement or in criminalizing abortion doesn't mean that they aren't concerned with those issues. The fact is that gay marriage is a matter that is settled at the state level unless you pass a constitutional amendment, which should I remind you Bush tried to do; and the pro-life movement can only win if Roe v Wade is overturned, which the Supreme Court is not going to do in its current state, but that doesn't mean conservative presidents won't appoint conservative judges.

Really I don't see how you can argue that; politicians aren't supposed to be single-issue voters, they're supposed to have opinions on many things.
 
Noted, though the meaning of all those terms is up to interpretation. For instance, "Creator" could be something as simple as your mother. I'm not saying there aren't allusions to God, but I'm not sure he outright affirms THE God.

Absolutely. As I noted, they are vague except for the first one.
 
The fact is that gay marriage is a matter that is settled at the state level unless you pass a constitutional amendment,..

That would be wrong. Government has no right to be involved in marriage at any level if it discriminates.

Anti-gay marriage laws will eventually be overturned by the Supreme Court for violating the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th amendment.
 
When has any president ever claimed to want to "take America back to Christianity"? Possibly Reagan, I suppose, but even if that's the case you have the causation wrong. People want to "take America back to Christianity" because America has moved culturally to the left. And by the 80's that move had ended.

This is 6 minutes of research done half awake. You're starting to look silly. That 'movement' is still going strong through faith based initiatives and the claims of people trying to get elected president.

Faith Based Initiatives.

The Center for Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships

OFBCI was established by President George W. Bush through executive order[2] on January 29, 2001, representing one of the key domestic policies of Bush's campaign promise of "compassionate conservatism." The initiative sought to strengthen faith-based and community organizations and expand their capacity to provide federally-funded social services, with the idea having been that these groups were well-situated to meet the needs of local individuals. As Texas governor, Bush had used the "Charitable Choice" provisions of the 1996 welfare reform (which allowed "faith-based" entities to compete for government contracts to deliver social services) to support the work of faith-based groups in Texas.

God's standard of presidential candidates :

Huck, the Constitution and 'God's standards' - First Read - msnbc.com

"[Some of my opponents] do not want to change the Constitution, but I believe it's a lot easier to change the constitution than it would be to change the word of the living God, and that's what we need to do is to amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards rather than try to change God's standards," Huckabee said, referring to the need for a constitutional human life amendment and an amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman.

Political organizations :

The Fellowship (Christian organization) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Did you not just answer your own question?
I mean, is everyone supposed to switch to the new, "progressive" position at the same time? 20 years ago everyone was against gay marriage, not just the "religious right". Do you expect the people who are opposed to changing tradition in general to approve of such a thing so quickly?

No. What is being argued is that if social conservatives really had a real dog in America's fight to move to the left, they would have used it already wouldn't they? But they haven't. So they have nothing left to do but try to pass whatever is left on their agenda that a bare majority might agree on because they've lost or are losing ground on every real social issue. From education to marriage.

Okay, but that is part of the conservative agenda, not the social conservative agenda. The fact that most conservatives happen to be social conservatives, and vice versa, doesn't change that fact.

That doesn't even make sense. If the majority of conservatives are social conservatives then that would still leave cutting taxes and interventionism as part of their agenda.


In response to tax cuts. Keep up.

And what I'm saying is that that's BS. Just because they haven't been successful in stopping the momentum of the pro-gay marriage movement or in criminalizing abortion doesn't mean that they aren't concerned with those issues. The fact is that gay marriage is a matter that is settled at the state level unless you pass a constitutional amendment, which should I remind you Bush tried to do; and the pro-life movement can only win if Roe v Wade is overturned, which the Supreme Court is not going to do in its current state, but that doesn't mean conservative presidents won't appoint conservative judges.

Really I don't see how you can argue that; politicians aren't supposed to be single-issue voters, they're supposed to have opinions on many things.

Marriage matters
my friend have always been solved through SCOTUS. This other silly bull**** of states solving matters which concern people across the entire country is (not surprisingly) a Dixiecrat tactic that originated in the 1950s and 60s to stop desegregation and was then picked up by Republicans like Nixons in the 70s.

Of course they(social conservatives) aren't really concerned with it. Otherwise they would have done something serious about really stopping gay marriage or abortion. But what have they done? Protests and TV interviews and that is exactly what the elites within the Republican party want. They want people to unite under 'causes' so that they can get these people to agree on cutting taxes and other matters which are of zero real relevance to the average American citizen.
 
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And what I'm saying is that that's BS. Just because they haven't been successful in stopping the momentum of the pro-gay marriage movement or in criminalizing abortion doesn't mean that they aren't concerned with those issues. The fact is that gay marriage is a matter that is settled at the state level unless you pass a constitutional amendment, which should I remind you Bush tried to do; and the pro-life movement can only win if Roe v Wade is overturned, which the Supreme Court is not going to do in its current state, but that doesn't mean conservative presidents won't appoint conservative judges.

The problem is, gay marriage isn't something that can be done on a state-by-state basis. We have a full faith system, if you get married in one state, you are married in *ALL* states no matter where you might move. This is true of heterosexual marriage, it also has to be true of homosexual marriage. It needs to be legal everywhere if it's legal anywhere and that's something that has to be sorted out by the Supreme Court. As it stands right now, a state where gay marriage is legal can marry gay partners and those partners have a damn good case if they move to any other state and their marriage isn't recognized.
 
The problem is, gay marriage isn't something that can be done on a state-by-state basis. We have a full faith system, if you get married in one state, you are married in *ALL* states no matter where you might move. This is true of heterosexual marriage, it also has to be true of homosexual marriage. It needs to be legal everywhere if it's legal anywhere and that's something that has to be sorted out by the Supreme Court. As it stands right now, a state where gay marriage is legal can marry gay partners and those partners have a damn good case if they move to any other state and their marriage isn't recognized.

THANK YOU!

It's a distraction tactic. If you say that gay marriage isn't really marriage but a matter that should be solved by the states you can prolong the discussion and never really deal with.

The fact of the matter is that gay marriage shouldn't be debated as 'gay marriage' but as a matter of 'marriage' and whether it should be recognized by the federal government the same way straight marriage and interracial marriage are. States rights is Dixiecrat created and borrowed Republican bull**** used whenever people don't really want to discuss an issue because they know they'll lose.
 
I have a flash for you my left wing friend.....Polls show that about 85% of this country believe in God............

But of that 85% there are several different religions, branches, etc. with several different belief systems and ideologies. Each one of those more or less subscribes to an "I'm right. You're wrong." philosophy, which makes any sort of coherent unity impossible. There would have to be a lot more for there to be any sort of religious revolution.
 
It's a distraction tactic. If you say that gay marriage isn't really marriage but a matter that should be solved by the states you can prolong the discussion and never really deal with.

The problem is, they don't want to deal with it, they want to pretend it doesn't exist and hope it goes away. But for the same reason we don't leave slavery to individual states to decide, we cannot leave gay marriage to the states either. The Constitution guarantees equal rights and equal protection under the law. That means blacks cannot be kept as slaves by whites. Women cannot be treated as second class citizens to men. It also means that gays cannot be given a separate standard to straights. Equal means equal.

Equality is something these religious zealots just aren't comfortable with.
 
The problem is, gay marriage isn't something that can be done on a state-by-state basis. We have a full faith system, if you get married in one state, you are married in *ALL* states no matter where you might move. This is true of heterosexual marriage, it also has to be true of homosexual marriage. It needs to be legal everywhere if it's legal anywhere and that's something that has to be sorted out by the Supreme Court. As it stands right now, a state where gay marriage is legal can marry gay partners and those partners have a damn good case if they move to any other state and their marriage isn't recognized.

And make Conceal Permits, no matter where they're issued, recognized in all 50 states too!!!!

:lol:
 
And make Conceal Permits, no matter where they're issued, recognized in all 50 states too!!!!

:lol:

Hell yeah it should. In fact, you shouldn't need the permit. Concealed and open carry should be assumed standard.
 
I am a paranormal investigator, I study things that are out of the norm, and I am not scared of things like ghost ectt. Because, I study them. I consider study things in order to get to know what your afraid of, and that way you can't be afraid of what you know about right. Like how, I am not scared of death. because I study it as a hobby.



I agree, it is apart of the human condition, but you can learn about things to make you conferrable with your life.

My point is, that we will never see 100% of the population overcome their fear of death. 95% of the worlds population believes in some form of spirituality, God or religion. This is unlikely to change soon, let alone get to the point that religion or belief in god ceases to exist.
 
This is 6 minutes of research done half awake. You're starting to look silly. That 'movement' is still going strong through faith based initiatives and the claims of people trying to get elected president.

I was referring to the progressivism of the 60s-70s. Now who's looking silly?



How are you helping your argument that right-wing politicians do not actively try to promote social conservatism by providing examples of them doing just that?

No. What is being argued is that if social conservatives really had a real dog in America's fight to move to the left, they would have used it already wouldn't they? But they haven't.

What haven't they done? All they can do to reverse Roe v Wade is appoint conservative SC judges, which they have done. And have you forgotten about Bush's gay marriage amendment? Proposition 8, and its equivalent in some 35 other states?

Social conservatism may be losing momentum, but that is not for the lack of effort of social conservatives, be them citizens or politicians.

So they have nothing left to do but try to pass whatever is left on their agenda that a bare majority might agree on because they've lost or are losing ground on every real social issue. From education to marriage.

The pro-life movement isn't losing ground; in fact, in recent years its even gained support.

That doesn't even make sense. If the majority of conservatives are social conservatives then that would still leave cutting taxes and interventionism as part of their agenda.

Okay, but I thought you meant that those things were part of the social conservative agenda specifically, which they're not.

In response to tax cuts. Keep up.

Which is what I was responding to. You make it seem as if most conservatives don't support tax cuts; you even said it again here:

They want people to unite under 'causes' so that they can get these people to agree on cutting taxes and other matters which are of zero real relevance to the average American citizen

What I said was it doesn't matter whether or not it's relevant to most people (and incidentally, IMO, it is), since that has nothing to do with whether or not most conservatives support it.



Marriage matters
my friend have always been solved through SCOTUS.

This statement is so incorrect that it makes me question how much you even know about the SCOTUS. Constitutional issues have always been solved through the SCOTUS, and if marriage happens to be involved in a Constitutional issue, as with Loving v Virginia, then they deal with that too.

This other silly bull**** of states solving matters which concern people across the entire country is (not surprisingly) a Dixiecrat tactic that originated in the 1950s and 60s to stop desegregation and was then picked up by Republicans like Nixons in the 70s.

Have you even read the Bill of Rights? I suggest taking a look at the 10th Amendment.

Of course they(social conservatives) aren't really concerned with it.

About state rights? Probably not; see proposed pro-life/anti-gay marriage amendments. But I wasn't arguing that they were concerned with it; I was arguing that because, whether you like it or not, this is currently a state issue, it can currently only be solved on the state level.

Otherwise they would have done something serious about really stopping gay marriage or abortion. But what have they done?

They tried to pass an amendment on it; the fact that that amendment didn't pass doesn't change the fact that they tried. And they've prevented it from being legalized in all but 5 or 6 states. That'll probably change sometime soon, but they've done all they could have to slow the movement down.

Protests and TV interviews and that is exactly what the elites within the Republican party want.

Yes, it's all a conspiracy. :roll:


Hasn't it crossed your mind that Republican politicians might be concerned with social issues as well as fiscal/economic/military issues?
 
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