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Do you think a religeous revolution is coming in this country?

Do you think a religeous revolution is coming in this country?


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Well I disagree.......It may not be a violent revolution, taking up weapons, etc, but it still will be a revolution.........I just hope I live long enough to see it .........

Honestly, what leads you to the assertion that a religious revolution is coming? I realize you probably think that this country is currently an immoral cesspool. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that a religious revolution is on the horizon.
 
Such are the proud roots of the Southern Baptists.
Indeed! Though some have grown disillusioned and become proud Southern Satanists. Makes sense, considering that Jesus never come down from the clouds with a sword to defend their system of blatant slavery.

YouTube - satanic racist
 
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Everyone can see the friction between the left and the silent majority or the religious right in this country so the question begs to be asked.........

I am going to have to say no.Probably not any of the reasons leftist and anti-religious people have said. But It is due to the fact many people who claim to be religious are not actually religious. Sure some of them go to church but goimg to church does not make you actually religious,its like parents who send to their kids to vacation bible school for two or three hours of free baby sitting. They have been convinced that the bible is nothing more than a work of fiction, that many of the rules or commandants are merely suggestions, that actual belief in the bible is comparable to terrorist in the middle east, or they buy into the notion that Jesus is a sin-all-you-want Christ-opoly card that never has to be returned back the deck or that being christian means being *****fist. There might be a conservative revolution but not a religious one.
 
Among a minority of Christian groups, you mean, until (blatant) slavery became fashionable to oppose. The majority of the faithful supported it. It's no coincidence that today's Bible belt was yesterday's Confederacy. As Jefferson Davis put it, "Slavery was established by decree of Almighty God. It is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation." Unlike some Christians, he actually read the Bible. Such as at 1 Tim. 6:1-2: “Let slaves regard their masters as worthy of all honor." Or Titus 2:9-10: “Be submissive to your master and give satisfaction in every respect." Biblical law on this matter is very straightforward: “Slaves obey your master." (Ephesians 6:5; Colossians 3:22)

Now, if someone actually wants to be a slave (for example, a sex slave, say they're into hardcore BDSM), that's fine with me. But Biblical law, on the other hand, does not require consent on the slave's part. Fathers are even expressly given permission to sell their own daughters into slavery, and the daughters are admonished to obey their fathers without question. Although it is clear that there were Christian abolitionists, it is equally clear that their abolitionism was anything but Bible-based.

I think you might be making the mistake of giving religion too much fluidity with pro-slavery sentiment in the Americas. The attribution of certain texts, certain ideas, to support the economic system that slavery became has a much more varied past than simply "religion-->pro-slavery". From the reading I have done, religion was used in justification of slavery at different times, as numerous times it simply was not needed. In certain decades, in certain regions it was important for slave owners to Christianize slaves, to educate them so as to be proficient readers of the holy text and then at other times, such information was seen as dangerous, and barred. Remember, under God, all men are equal creations. How does that philosophic and religious sentiment mix with the Chain of Being, with its emphasis on rational hierarchy of all creations in nature? One of many conflicts, indeed!

Reasoning for the justification of slavery varied in time and place. Sometimes, the Enlightenment's emphasis on science, on logic, on order, created the perfect justification for the character of the American slave institution. Other times, the Enlightenment was the source of freedom. Same with religion. It had its liberalizing moments, and its restrictive moments.

On a side note: you could also take aim against your claim that it was merely fashionable to oppose slavery, as prior to that moment it was enforced. Again, it depended upon time, place, and to an extent, person. One could easily make the argument that until the heating moment in American politics, there was a sense amongst the American political establishment that at some point in time, the institution of slavery was going to be meet its expected death, but perhaps also that rapid change to a slave-free nation was a bad idea.
 
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Looking for another "Great Awakening", Navy?

I predict the "Great Awakening" will be an eventual economic collapse (a real one, not the one our government is trying to prop up currently).
 
I believe that religious conservatives have been proven to donate more to charity than any other group, so....

Which in itself doesn't tell us anything.

Compare that to the cost of living of where these people are donating. If I live in an area which costs three times as expensive but donate slightly less than a guy who lives in an area that costs the base rate who donates slightly more, who actually gives more in terms of real dollars?

Remember that Bible story where a King gives huge amounts but a poor woman gives much less? Who did was praised in that story? The person who could afford it easily, or the person who couldn't?
 
I believe that religious conservatives have been proven to donate more to charity than any other group, so....

Which is great if it's true, but that's not the point. The bible never mentions abortion (though other legal codes of the time do), and homosexuality is only mentioned a few times, and never by Jesus or anyone who ever met Jesus. School prayer and putting religious symbols in the public square also only have middling justification, biblically. But if you read the bible, Jesus at every turn brings up "help the poor, help the sick, help the needy." He even says at one point "as you have treated the least of you, so have you treated me."
Jesus didn't give two squirts about "social issues" we care about today, but social conservatives largely define themselves by these issues. When the government, which they're ok with legislating morality, tries to enact programs that help the poor, they're often the ones screaming the loudest against it. If they dedicated the energy they use to complain about abortion and gay marriage into trying to find good ways to deal with poverty and the like, we'd be a much better place.
 
Really? The Great Awakenings are credited with instilling democratic values to first white male Americans after the Puritan era, and then to abolitionists prior to the Civil War.

That is the first I've heard about that.

Where did you hear/read that? Can you source or substantiate this claim?
 
Honestly, what leads you to the assertion that a religious revolution is coming? I realize you probably think that this country is currently an immoral cesspool. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that a religious revolution is on the horizon.

Especially when many of the high profile moral majority spokesmen are arguably the most immoral collection of scum on the planet. Hard to get started when your leaders are down in the pool mucking around.
 
I think the very religious in this country are well aware of the constitutional restrictions of our behavior.

And I see a lot of irreligious people being tolerant of religion. I think they see it as preferable to young people killing each other over drugs.
 
Go ask Dana if Navy is an actual conservative.

Heh. It's funny you bring that up, because I happen to think that Dana's views on who is and isn't a "real" conservative is whack.


And when I said that you were incorrect, I was referring to your assertion that opposition to gay marriage and abortion rights is contradictory to conservatism.
 
Which is great if it's true, but that's not the point. The bible never mentions abortion (though other legal codes of the time do), and homosexuality is only mentioned a few times, and never by Jesus or anyone who ever met Jesus.

I don't think very many people at all use the Bible itself as justification for their opposition to gay marriage and abortion. Sometimes they bring up religion, but never the Bible. In any case, I know non-Christians who oppose both, so the point is moot.

School prayer and putting religious symbols in the public square also only have middling justification, biblically.

Positions on this issue also have nothing to do with the teachings of the Bible.

But if you read the bible, Jesus at every turn brings up "help the poor, help the sick, help the needy." He even says at one point "as you have treated the least of you, so have you treated me."
Jesus didn't give two squirts about "social issues" we care about today, but social conservatives largely define themselves by these issues. When the government, which they're ok with legislating morality, tries to enact programs that help the poor, they're often the ones screaming the loudest against it. If they dedicated the energy they use to complain about abortion and gay marriage into trying to find good ways to deal with poverty and the like, we'd be a much better place.

Jesus never said anything about dealing with poverty; in fact, at one point he even said, "The poor will be with us always", or something to that effect. He was more interested in the virtue of willingly giving what is yours to someone who needs it more, i.e. charity. There is nothing virtuous about giving someone else's money to the poor; that is not the kind of thing Jesus was advocating.
 
Evidence? This thread.

I'm not really keen on using anything on DP as evidence of some sort of trend; if it was, most of the country would be libertarian, and 6 out of 7 people would be male.


And just because Fundamentalist Christianity will probably decline, which I agree is probable, doesn't mean that Christianity in general will decline.
 
Heh. It's funny you bring that up, because I happen to think that Dana's views on who is and isn't a "real" conservative is whack.

And when I said that you were incorrect, I was referring to your assertion that opposition to gay marriage and abortion rights is contradictory to conservatism.

To social yes. Not fiscal/governmental. But both are inherently contradictory anyways.
 
Everyone can see the friction between the left and the silent majority or the religious right in this country so the question begs to be asked.........


Did it beg you?
 
I'm not really keen on using anything on DP as evidence of some sort of trend; if it was, most of the country would be libertarian, and 6 out of 7 people would be male.


And just because Fundamentalist Christianity will probably decline, which I agree is probable, doesn't mean that Christianity in general will decline.

Actually, you should look at statistical data. Here's a good place to start:

http://b27.cc.trincoll.edu/weblogs/AmericanReligionSurvey-ARIS/reports/ARIS_Report_2008.pdf

Americans who self-identified as Christians dropped from 84% to 76% between 1990 and 2008. That's a drop of almost 10%. The percentage of Americans who stated that they have no religion DOUBLED in the same time period, from 8.2% to 15%.

From the Aris study:

• 86% of American adults identified as Christians in 1990 and 76% in 2008.
• The historic Mainline churches and denominations have experienced the steepest declines while the non-denominational Christian identity has been trending upward particularly since 2001.
• The challenge to Christianity in the U.S. does not come from other religions but rather from a rejection of all forms of organized religion.
• One sign of the lack of attachment of Americans to religion is that 27% do not expect a religious funeral at their death.
• Based on their stated beliefs rather than their religious identification in 2008, 70% of Americans believe in a personal God, roughly 12% of Americans are atheist (no God) or agnostic (unknowable or unsure), and another 12% are deistic (a higher power but no personal God).


...Tables 4 and 5 show that there is a real and growing theological polarization in American society whereby 34 percent of the population believe they are “Born Again” but 25-30 percent reject the idea of a personal divinity. These questions on belief reveal the cultural polarization between the pious and non-religious portions of the national population, which are today roughly similar in size.
America is now less religious than it's ever been at any point in its history.
 
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^That is all true; however, most of the decline was in the first 10 years. Now the decline is, well, declining.

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That's why I said "will decline" rather than "is declining".
 
The decline isn't declining. It's the difference between an 11 year period and a 7 year period.

You know what's really interesting? Look at the population shifts at the back of the publication. In some areas of the U.S., especially the northeast, the west, and the northwest, the "none's" (i.e., zero religious belief) represent 25-30% or more of the total population. So, in an area like Alabama, religious belief has declined, but not as drastically as it as in places like Wyoming, Nevada, Montana, Delaware, New Hampshire, and Maine. Those places are outright heathen.

If you live in an area with heavy religious influence, you probably believe that religion is remaining strong. But, if you live in the Northwest, northeast, atlantic states, or the west, you're living in a place with a tremendous growth in non-religious types. It's kind of a self-affirming sentiment because America is increasingly dividing itself regionally along political and religious lines (which, not oddly, fit).
 
That is where you are incorrect. Zyphilin explains it better than I ever could here:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-pa...ical-platforms/48201-social-conservative.html

I think you have misunderstood me. My issue is always about when Social Conservatism gets into power. When Social Conservatism is in power it is in an inherent war with Fiscal Conservatism. Social as you stated in your own post to Zyphilin wishes to impose governmental controls over aspects of private matters, thereby expanding government which is contradictory to Fiscal Conservatism which promotes the reduction in government.

When Social has power, it promotes the growth of government to enforce its specific morality. We saw this with Dubya. And we often see it with strongly religious candidates in their platforms.

Fiscal seeks to get government out of our lives as necessary, where Social seeks to expand government into our lives to promote is social agenda. Thus, the two are inherently contradictory in goals.

Granted, there are social cons who don't want to push an agenda, but those are largely irrelevant.
 
That is the first I've heard about that.

Where did you hear/read that? Can you source or substantiate this claim?

Well, let's see if I can quickly remember everything before I catch up on some sleep.

First Great Awakening: I first came across some of the details through an essay evaluating various political and economic contributing factors of the Salem Witch Trials, which I am not entirely sure I have neatly placed in this...cluster**** known as my desk area. It was a slight reference to the interesting take the incidents went when so far as other New England towns had other possession episodes that were seen as a demonstration of God's power, rather than evil's possession of man. It became related because of the interesting political and economic forces at work, and how one could interpret events (a long shot, but it was an observation). Then you can get some more detail from Ben Franklin's autobiography where he discusses various preachers who funnel notions favorable to what would later be the democratic republican ideal of public good.

Though I haven't read this, Bernard Bailyn's The Ideological Origins of the American Revolution provides a specific demonstration of its utility in fostering the Republican spirit (thanks Wikipedia for every once in a great while providing an interesting source).

Second Great Awakening: I would suggest teasing out the details in Ira Berlin's Generations of Captivity as well as Frederick Douglass Narrative of the Life of a Slave.

There was also a PBS documentary series with David Blight as one of the talking heads that loved to capture this religiosity and its influence on abolitionism and republicanism. I wish I could remember the damn name of it.

Shoot, I'm sure I could track down more ideas in a tiny bit. I'll just post this for now, before I tidy it up.
 
The decline isn't declining. It's the difference between an 11 year period and a 7 year period.

It's a difference of a 9.5% decline in an 11 year period and a .7% decline in a 7 year period.

That's a rate of decline of about .85% per year in 1990-2001, and .1% per year in 2001-2008.

So yes, the decline is declining.


Also I happen to live in Northern Virginia, a very non-religious area (I can't seem to find any statistics on religion here, though).
 
Do you think a religeous revolution is coming in this country?


Let me break this down a bit, and throw in a few specifics...

Q: Do you think a revolution/revolt of some sort may occur in the US within the next 20 years?

Answer: I think it is a possibility, dependent on so many different things that I would hesitate to assign it a percentage.

Q: Do you think, if a revolution comes as posited above, that religious conservatives will be a major influence in that revolution?

I'd say that seems fairly probable. The religiously conservative are among those most displeased with many current trends in the US, culturally and governmentally; they are largely inclined to respect the Founders' and their revolutionary ideal; that the religiously conservative include large numbers of veterans and gun owners... so yes, it seems likely they would be one of the major influences in such a hypothetical revolution.

If we are presuming a right-wing revolution against a left-wing government, most definately...but there would be more factions in the revolution than only the religiously conservative. There would likely be secular small-government types as well, possibly including libertarians... who would be at odds in many cases with much of the agenda religious conservatives would push for. There could very well be other influential factions as well.


Most of the time I hope it doesn't come to revolution, armed revolt, or civil war. On bad days, I sometimes wonder why We The People have already waited so long in the face of so much bad government.

:shrug:
 
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