View Poll Results: Do you think a religeous revolution is coming in this country?

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Thread: Do you think a religeous revolution is coming in this country?

  1. #201
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    Re: Do you think a religeous revolution is coming in this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Tax cuts is not a social issue, and has nothing to do with abortion and gay rights.
    Oh but it very much is and contextually it very much does. When prominent right wingers say 'don't raise taxes' or cut taxes they don't say it's because only the people who have the most money are the ones who get taxed. They say it because it will affect the economy and that in turn will harm the poor or the elderly or the military families or whatever poster child conservatives are using this week.Raising/cutting taxes is very much a social issue as that is how it is argued.

    How is this related to abortion and gay rights? Well as long as you can keep people excited about certain issues you can get them to agree with anything else can't you? Do you think the majority of poor right wing voters really benefit from the millions in tax cuts that companies get? How did that work for the first half of the 21st century and the end of the 20th? Not too well considering the economic **** sandwich we're all eating. How did social conservatives gain power in the 90s? Through a MORAL agenda. The Contract with America was reliant on a Christian conservative agenda that only pushed tax cuts through the back door.

    After the Stupak amendment or whatever that thing is called, nobody is arguing that Obama's health plan will fund abortions. They oppose it for completely unrelated reasons.

    I don't really see what you're trying to argue here.
    Quote Originally Posted by NCFY
    they use their supporters passion over things like abortion to get things like lower taxes for the top 3% passed
    Last edited by Hatuey; 11-29-09 at 08:28 PM.
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    Re: Do you think a religeous revolution is coming in this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    You think that man will evolve out of the emotion of fear then? I think that there is a distinct difference between the idea of understanding that there is no god and the emotions of wanting there to be one.
    Yes, I do think that we will evolve beyond fear of the unknown, and beyond fear of people ectt..... Let me just point, this out Fear of a name increases the fear of thing it self. In other words, learn what god is all about before you start to fear him.

  3. #203
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    Re: Do you think a religeous revolution is coming in this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by RyrineaHaruno View Post
    Yes, I do think that we will evolve beyond fear of the unknown, and beyond fear of people ectt..... Let me just point, this out Fear of a name increases the fear of thing it self. In other words, learn what god is all about before you start to fear him.
    The fear that people have is not of God, but of Death, what is Unknown and what it is to be unloved.

    How do you propose that people overcome their fear of stopping to exist forever? How do people learn about what is in the unknown especially if we are literally unable to know anything about it, hence the term... unknown. How do people become secure about feeling unloved. To be universally and unconditionally loved by God reassures people in a way that a spouse or child never can.

    I think that the human condition and doubt about what I spoke of above will never be absent, simply because it is a part of what makes us the humans that we are.
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  4. #204
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    Re: Do you think a religeous revolution is coming in this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Oh but it very much is and contextually it very much does. When prominent right wingers say 'don't raise taxes' or cut taxes they don't say it's because only the people who have the most money are the ones who get taxed. They say it because it will affect the economy and that in turn will harm the poor or the elderly or the military families or whatever poster child conservatives are using this week.Raising/cutting taxes is very much a social issue as that is how it is argued.

    How is this related to abortion and gay rights? Well as long as you can keep people excited about certain issues you can get them to agree with anything else can't you? Do you think the majority of poor right wing voters really benefit from the millions in tax cuts that companies get? How did that work for the first half of the 21st century and the end of the 20th? Not too well considering the economic **** sandwich we're all eating. How did social conservatives gain power in the 90s? Through a MORAL agenda. The Contract with America was reliant on a Christian conservative agenda that only pushed tax cuts through the back door.
    I see what your theory is, but is there any proof of it?

    I mean you don't have to personally benefit from a policy to support it. How many heterosexual social liberals benefit from gay marriage?

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    Re: Do you think a religeous revolution is coming in this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    I see what your theory is, but is there any proof of it?
    What kind of proof would you like? The fact that - after 100 years, a handful of Republican Presidents, Republican majorities in Congress and right wing religious movements claiming to take America back to Christianity - American culture has done nothing but move culturally to the left is plenty of proof.

    Meanwhile social conservatives are still trying to argue that abortion should be banned and gays shouldn't marry. And for what? 20 years ago it would have been unthinkable for gay marriage to lose by 5%. Now it is a reality. 10 years from now who can say it won't win by that very 5%?

    So after all that what do social conservatives have left that they can slip through from their agenda and actually get accomplished? Cutting taxes and pro-Israeli interventionism in the Middle East. That is it.

    I mean you don't have to personally benefit from a policy to support it. How many heterosexual social liberals benefit from gay marriage?
    Who said anything about personally benefiting? What is being argued is that the entire anti-abortion anti-gay marriage angle is nothing more than a smoke screen to get other **** passed through.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Do you think a religeous revolution is coming in this country?

    How do you propose that people overcome their fear of stopping to exist forever? How do people learn about what is in the unknown especially if we are literally unable to know anything about it, hence the term... unknown. How do people become secure about feeling unloved. To be universally and unconditionally loved by God reassures people in a way that a spouse or child never can.

    I am a paranormal investigator, I study things that are out of the norm, and I am not scared of things like ghost ectt. Because, I study them. I consider study things in order to get to know what your afraid of, and that way you can't be afraid of what you know about right. Like how, I am not scared of death. because I study it as a hobby.

    I think that the human condition and doubt about what I spoke of above will never be absent, simply because it is a part of what makes us the humans that we are.
    I agree, it is apart of the human condition, but you can learn about things to make you conferrable with your life.
    Last edited by RyrineaHaruno; 11-30-09 at 12:53 AM.

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    Re: Do you think a religeous revolution is coming in this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    What kind of proof would you like? The fact that - after 100 years, a handful of Republican Presidents, Republican majorities in Congress and right wing religious movements claiming to take America back to Christianity - American culture has done nothing but move culturally to the left is plenty of proof.
    When has any president ever claimed to want to "take America back to Christianity"? Possibly Reagan, I suppose, but even if that's the case you have the causation wrong. People want to "take America back to Christianity" because America has moved culturally to the left. And by the 80's that move had ended.

    Meanwhile social conservatives are still trying to argue that abortion should be banned and gays shouldn't marry. And for what? 20 years ago it would have been unthinkable for gay marriage to lose by 5%.
    Did you not just answer your own question?
    I mean, is everyone supposed to switch to the new, "progressive" position at the same time? 20 years ago everyone was against gay marriage, not just the "religious right". Do you expect the people who are opposed to changing tradition in general to approve of such a thing so quickly?



    So after all that what do social conservatives have left that they can slip through from their agenda and actually get accomplished? Cutting taxes and pro-Israeli interventionism in the Middle East. That is it.
    Okay, but that is part of the conservative agenda, not the social conservative agenda. The fact that most conservatives happen to be social conservatives, and vice versa, doesn't change that fact.

    Who said anything about personally benefiting?
    --->
    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Do you think the majority of poor right wing voters really benefit from the millions in tax cuts that companies get?

    What is being argued is that the entire anti-abortion anti-gay marriage angle is nothing more than a smoke screen to get other **** passed through.
    And what I'm saying is that that's BS. Just because they haven't been successful in stopping the momentum of the pro-gay marriage movement or in criminalizing abortion doesn't mean that they aren't concerned with those issues. The fact is that gay marriage is a matter that is settled at the state level unless you pass a constitutional amendment, which should I remind you Bush tried to do; and the pro-life movement can only win if Roe v Wade is overturned, which the Supreme Court is not going to do in its current state, but that doesn't mean conservative presidents won't appoint conservative judges.

    Really I don't see how you can argue that; politicians aren't supposed to be single-issue voters, they're supposed to have opinions on many things.

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    Re: Do you think a religeous revolution is coming in this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Noted, though the meaning of all those terms is up to interpretation. For instance, "Creator" could be something as simple as your mother. I'm not saying there aren't allusions to God, but I'm not sure he outright affirms THE God.
    Absolutely. As I noted, they are vague except for the first one.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Do you think a religeous revolution is coming in this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    The fact is that gay marriage is a matter that is settled at the state level unless you pass a constitutional amendment,..
    That would be wrong. Government has no right to be involved in marriage at any level if it discriminates.

    Anti-gay marriage laws will eventually be overturned by the Supreme Court for violating the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th amendment.

  10. #210
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    Re: Do you think a religeous revolution is coming in this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    When has any president ever claimed to want to "take America back to Christianity"? Possibly Reagan, I suppose, but even if that's the case you have the causation wrong. People want to "take America back to Christianity" because America has moved culturally to the left. And by the 80's that move had ended.
    This is 6 minutes of research done half awake. You're starting to look silly. That 'movement' is still going strong through faith based initiatives and the claims of people trying to get elected president.

    Faith Based Initiatives.

    The Center for Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships

    OFBCI was established by President George W. Bush through executive order[2] on January 29, 2001, representing one of the key domestic policies of Bush's campaign promise of "compassionate conservatism." The initiative sought to strengthen faith-based and community organizations and expand their capacity to provide federally-funded social services, with the idea having been that these groups were well-situated to meet the needs of local individuals. As Texas governor, Bush had used the "Charitable Choice" provisions of the 1996 welfare reform (which allowed "faith-based" entities to compete for government contracts to deliver social services) to support the work of faith-based groups in Texas.
    God's standard of presidential candidates :

    Huck, the Constitution and 'God's standards' - First Read - msnbc.com

    "[Some of my opponents] do not want to change the Constitution, but I believe it's a lot easier to change the constitution than it would be to change the word of the living God, and that's what we need to do is to amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards rather than try to change God's standards," Huckabee said, referring to the need for a constitutional human life amendment and an amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman.
    Political organizations :

    The Fellowship (Christian organization) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Did you not just answer your own question?
    I mean, is everyone supposed to switch to the new, "progressive" position at the same time? 20 years ago everyone was against gay marriage, not just the "religious right". Do you expect the people who are opposed to changing tradition in general to approve of such a thing so quickly?
    No. What is being argued is that if social conservatives really had a real dog in America's fight to move to the left, they would have used it already wouldn't they? But they haven't. So they have nothing left to do but try to pass whatever is left on their agenda that a bare majority might agree on because they've lost or are losing ground on every real social issue. From education to marriage.

    Okay, but that is part of the conservative agenda, not the social conservative agenda. The fact that most conservatives happen to be social conservatives, and vice versa, doesn't change that fact.
    That doesn't even make sense. If the majority of conservatives are social conservatives then that would still leave cutting taxes and interventionism as part of their agenda.

    --->
    In response to tax cuts. Keep up.

    And what I'm saying is that that's BS. Just because they haven't been successful in stopping the momentum of the pro-gay marriage movement or in criminalizing abortion doesn't mean that they aren't concerned with those issues. The fact is that gay marriage is a matter that is settled at the state level unless you pass a constitutional amendment, which should I remind you Bush tried to do; and the pro-life movement can only win if Roe v Wade is overturned, which the Supreme Court is not going to do in its current state, but that doesn't mean conservative presidents won't appoint conservative judges.

    Really I don't see how you can argue that; politicians aren't supposed to be single-issue voters, they're supposed to have opinions on many things.

    Marriage matters
    my friend have always been solved through SCOTUS. This other silly bull**** of states solving matters which concern people across the entire country is (not surprisingly) a Dixiecrat tactic that originated in the 1950s and 60s to stop desegregation and was then picked up by Republicans like Nixons in the 70s.

    Of course they(social conservatives) aren't really concerned with it. Otherwise they would have done something serious about really stopping gay marriage or abortion. But what have they done? Protests and TV interviews and that is exactly what the elites within the Republican party want. They want people to unite under 'causes' so that they can get these people to agree on cutting taxes and other matters which are of zero real relevance to the average American citizen.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 11-30-09 at 09:29 AM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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