View Poll Results: Do you think a religeous revolution is coming in this country?

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Thread: Do you think a religeous revolution is coming in this country?

  1. #131
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    Re: Do you think a religeous revolution is coming in this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Go ahead and keep clinging to the deist notion, it serves the Christian-haters well.
    I don't care if the founders were Christians/deists/whatever. But they definitely were not fundie extremists if that's what you think. Even the architecture of DC (which is based on ancient Greek/Roman style) provides evidence of that - in the more religious areas of Europe of the time, it would've been unheard of to construct a government building in a "non-Christian" style of architecture. The founders were fairly free-thinking for their day believe it or not.
    Last edited by Toothpicvic; 11-25-09 at 04:25 PM.

  2. #132
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    Re: Do you think a religeous revolution is coming in this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    In many of his personal correspondence with his son, it seems that Jefferson may have been more atheist than deist. Though back in those days you couldn't claim atheism without major repercussions. I guess the more things change, the more things stay the same.
    If Thomas Jefferson was an atheist he wouldn't have mentioned God in the Declaration of Independence. Though I suppose his views could have changed sometime after that; there were about 25 years between when he wrote the DoI and when he became President.

  3. #133
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    Re: Do you think a religeous revolution is coming in this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    If Thomas Jefferson was an atheist he wouldn't have mentioned God in the Declaration of Independence. Though I suppose his views could have changed sometime after that; there were about 25 years between when he wrote the DoI and when he became President.
    He wasn't an atheist, but he didn't acknowledge Christ's divinity (he believed the vigin birth never happened and wrote his own version of the Bible without any supernatural references). The majority of people (even today) believe in a god, but that doesn't make them fundamentalist Christians. The founders certainly weren't.

  4. #134
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    Re: Do you think a religeous revolution is coming in this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sov View Post
    I actually wish I could agree with you. I originally jumped in this thread to mess with the holy rollers.
    This is true of religious fundamentalists everywhere, even in Saudi Arabia and Iran. In those countries the men in power will hang women for "conduct incompatible with chastity" and then go back inside to have sex with their harems of teenage prostitutes. That they are rank hypocrites doesn't keep them from being oppressive and destructive. You will not find any religious regime, on matter how "extreme," which is not riddled with corruption and hypocrisy.
    I wish I could agree with you, and you may be right that forms of fundamentalism are dying, but what about the essence that gave rise to those forms? Organized religion developed out of authoritarian tendencies and structures that, to a good extent, already had to be there as a foundation. If fundies are so universally mocked, it is curious that McCain/Palin got a majority of the white vote. If Palin couldn't turn most white voters off then who will? Even if most people do not attend church regularly, most people are not adept at critical thinking or immune from authoritarian appeals that play on moral panic either. Most of those patriotards you see at tea party parades probably couldn't name all the books in the Bible, but they're still assholes.
    I don't consider Palin a "true blue fundie". I'm refering to someone like Rev. Fred Phelps ("Thank God for dead soldiers"), and even 99% of evangelical Christians hate him. If Fred Phelps became ruler, I think he would literally try to turn the US into a Muslim-style theocracy. Palin? No way in hell. She may say some crazy stuff, but she's nowhere near the level of a true blue fundie who'd actually be willing to murder people in the name of god.

  5. #135
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    Re: Do you think a religeous revolution is coming in this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    Legally, in most states sodomy includes oral sex... as well as other things.
    In most Southern states at least, the legal definition of "sodomy" includes everything but missionary style penile/vaginal intercourse.
    It's a catch-all phrase meaning "deviant sex".

    You heard right: blowjobs are against the law.
    Or were, at least in my state; I think that may have finally been overturned in 2001.
    In Flordia up until recently, it was only illegal to have sex with a porcupine (recently they changed the law to make sex with all animals illegal).

  6. #136
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    Re: Do you think a religeous revolution is coming in this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Toothpicvic View Post
    I don't consider Palin a "true blue fundie". I'm refering to someone like Rev. Fred Phelps ("Thank God for dead soldiers"), and even 99% of evangelical Christians hate him. If Fred Phelps became ruler, I think he would literally try to turn the US into a Muslim-style theocracy. Palin? No way in hell. She may say some crazy stuff, but she's nowhere near the level of a true blue fundie who'd actually be willing to murder people in the name of god.
    Phelps and most of his family are crooked lawyers. He doesn't count as a real fundamentalist wacko because it's all a scam. the Westboro Bapitist Church is about as genuine as the Landover Baptist Church. Except one is in it for money and one is in it for satire.

  7. #137
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    Re: Do you think a religeous revolution is coming in this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    If Thomas Jefferson was an atheist he wouldn't have mentioned God in the Declaration of Independence. Though I suppose his views could have changed sometime after that; there were about 25 years between when he wrote the DoI and when he became President.
    God. God. God. See, atheists can write down the word. There is a good portion of the DoI which is propaganda and which played to the common held beliefs of others, even if Jefferson himself didn't believe in the god. He was a follower of the natural rights philosophy of course, but there is some indication that he didn't actually believe in any gods.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  8. #138
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    Re: Do you think a religeous revolution is coming in this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    God. God. God. See, atheists can write down the word. There is a good portion of the DoI which is propaganda and which played to the common held beliefs of others, even if Jefferson himself didn't believe in the god. He was a follower of the natural rights philosophy of course, but there is some indication that he didn't actually believe in any gods.
    There wasn't any need to put it in there though, especially using it as part of an important argument.

    Jefferson might have been an agnostic at most, but not an atheist.

  9. #139
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    Re: Do you think a religeous revolution is coming in this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    There wasn't any need to put it in there though, especially using it as part of an important argument.

    Jefferson might have been an agnostic at most, but not an atheist.
    There is reason because they are trying to provide justification for the revolt. And what better justification than evoking god? Especially when it's a dynamic widely believed by the People. The DoI wasn't just to justify to the King of England why we were telling him to piss off; but also to convince the colonialists that they have the right and duty to do so. There's plenty of practical reasons to evoke gods. In his personal correspondence to his sons, there are lines in which he warns against belief in gods and how those beliefs can lead one astray. But he could never come out and publicly say it. That's why I said there is indication, but not proof. You seem to be talking in the absolute terms, I was not.
    Last edited by Ikari; 11-25-09 at 05:28 PM.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Do you think a religeous revolution is coming in this country?

    ITT: People claim to see into the mind of someone who's been dead over 200 years who's writings and ideology are still topics of hot debate to this day.

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