NEUROSPORT

so you think that an abortion at 2 weeks is the same as abortion at say 3 months ?

molten_dragon

Medically? No. Morally? Yes.

The situation doesn't change until there's a chance of viability outside the mother.

__________________
If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Korimyr the Rat

Grey is nothing more than different values of black and white. The world isn't better off without Saddam Hussein, but it could have been if we'd had a better plan for what would replace him. It isn't a crime to kill either mice or cats unless they belong to someone else, but it is a crime to kill them cruelly; it is even the same crime, regardless of which you killed, despite the difference in the likelihood that you'll be convicted.

A fetus is not a person, and the vast majority of abortions occur before it is capable of experiencing cruelty. Those that remain are done so quickly, causing braindeath in less time than it would take a cat to die if you shot it with 20 gauge birdshot. Thus if killing a fetus is like killing a cat, it's only a crime if it belongs to someone else.

No, but there is a single moment when something legal happens and citizenship begins. There is a single moment, despite our inability to pinpoint it, when a fetus becomes more likely to survive premature birth than not. There's a single moment when a fetus becomes more likely to survive to term than not. For any objective criterion you wish to establish, there is a moment after which a human being qualifies, and before which it does not.

The only thing subjective about it is deciding which to use.

If I am diagnosed with Alzheimer's, I can guarantee that my life will end far more suddenly than it began. Bang.

Logic is order. It is structure and it is rules. When you take away structure and rules, what you have is no longer logic-- and no longer reliable for use as a moral compass. When you stop using rules to determine what is right and what is wrong, what should be applauded and what should be punished, you stop having a reason to do-- or not do-- anything. At that point, not even your whims have value.

There is a moment in every girl's life where something legal happens...

__________________

NEUROSPORT

so you believe that a law can be arbitrary ?

for example: you can drink alcohol but you can't smoke weed. one is a crime and one is not because that's just what we decided.

you believe in that ?

i don't.

i believe no law should exist unless it is absolutely objectively necessary and makes perfect sense.

but then of course i remember you think the chains are the best part of life.

frankly Korimyr i just don't care enough about abortion to argue with you about it. you are very difficult to argue with and i would rather save it for something i consider more important.

Korimyr the Rat

I don't believe that law can be anything but arbitrary. In the end, regardless of whether the law is written by one man or thousands, whether the law itself is constrained by other laws, and even what goals the law sets out to accomplish, the law is nothing more than opinions decided by men with pens and enforced by men with guns. There is no law that could not have been written differently, and no law that could not work just as well within society if it had been.

The only things that matter are what you want the law to do, and whether or not it works. If you don't know what you want the law to do, you can't tell whether or not it works-- and if you don't know why you want the law to do something, you can't tell whether or not it's worth the price.

The only thing that is objectively necessary about the law is that it exists and that it's enforced. Society needs to have rules in order for people to know how to behave, and more importantly, to know how to expect other people to behave. Beyond that, everything else is just a matter of how people want other people to behave and there's nothing more subjective than that.

__________________

Tsunami

I have a different solution. Remove the fetus without killing it, and leave it up to science or God to see if they can keep it alive. Because even if a fetus deserves the same rights as the rest of us it still shouldn't be allowed to ride around in someone's uterus.

__________________
Schadenfreude ist die schönste Freude.

jamesrage

I view a unborn child as a human being who deserves the same rights as the rest of us and that killing a innocent human being should be avoided.So I believe someone who gets an abortion should be treated no different than a murderer and someone who performs an abortion should be treated no different than a serial killer. So the same penalty for murder should apply regardless of the age of the victim.
No I would not support it.
If I was an abortionist then I would view your idea as still stupid. It would be as absurd as suggesting criminal penalties for someone cutting off their own toenail since that is what abortionist view an unborn child as.
What does age of consent have to do with this? What if someone reaches puberty at a early age or even later,should someone who has sex with a 9 year old suffer less no punishment than someone who has sex with a child the same age just because that child developed early or should someone suffer punishment just because the victim reached puberty at a later age? 16 is the age of consent in many states around the country why push the line even lower? And if you are going to try to push it lower then why something not clearly defined by age. You are aware that puberty typically starts for girls starts at 10 and boys at 12?

__________________
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Cephus

I think abortion is fine no matter what time you do it, right up to the end of the second trimester. What difference does it make?

__________________
I'm not anti-religion, I'm anti-hypocrisy.

Blog me! http://BitchSpot.JadeDragonOnline.com

DarkWizard12

that's why I said "adult" women. Most younger women, I think, are just confused with what they want, so that should stay more with family. But after 18, I have zero, zilch, pity for them. Used to, I did, but no I don't. if they aren't responsible enough to prevent getting pregnant in the first place and lack the heart to put their child up for adoption, then they deserve the right to reproduce, after that abuse.

If they want a kid so bad later on, then they can adopt.

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKGrannie Even pro-choicers will say the fetus is alive.

earthworm

The year is 2009, not 2900..
By then we will be, I hope, more civilized and abortion will end.Until the, we will have to live with it, like it or not.
Illegal abortion will just create more problems, not save lives..
Man has caused this problem by acting in an irresponsible manner; when he learns to respect life and the woman, most of the need for abortion will be gone...