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Thread: Would the rich miss 5%?

  1. #51
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    Re: Would the rich miss 5%?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    It's still theft. But a very tiny amount of taxation is necessary to in order to have a government at all. Very tiny.

    However, I'm perfectly fine with sectioning off a part of the country and designate it as the anarchist area. Then give people the choice to pay a tiny amount of taxes to fund a fire, police and judicial system and live in the area where those operate, or to not pay those funds and live in the anarchist area where they don't operate. I have no issue with that at all. But unless we are willing to quarantine off such an area, a small amount of theft will be necessary to sustain a very small, functional government.
    Why is Fire and Police necessary but things like Education, healthcare, roads, air traffic regulation, parks and rec.....aren't?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Would the rich miss 5%?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Why is Fire and Police necessary but things like Education, healthcare, roads, air traffic regulation, parks and rec.....aren't?
    Those can be more efficiently run by the private sector. Things like defense, police and a judicial system require the government because they require equal enforcement of laws that we have put into place. The private sector cannot guarantee equal enforcement, therefore that must fall to an 'unbiased' third party - the government.

  3. #53
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    Re: Would the rich miss 5%?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    It's still theft. But a very tiny amount of taxation is necessary to in order to have a government at all. Very tiny.
    Okay. At least you are consistent on that.

    However, I'm perfectly fine with sectioning off a part of the country and designate it as the anarchist area. Then give people the choice to pay a tiny amount of taxes to fund a fire, police and judicial system and live in the area where those operate, or to not pay those funds and live in the anarchist area where they don't operate. I have no issue with that at all. But unless we are willing to quarantine off such an area, a small amount of theft will be necessary to sustain a very small, functional government.
    You do realize that even the tiny government is still a Hobbesian Social Contract no?

    I think your view of the world would work where people are inherently good. But I've been around the block to know that people steal, cheat and lie. I'm not sure how you could run a functioning capitalist society that maintains the framework of capitalism on a tiny, tiny, tiny government.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Would the rich miss 5%?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    So you prefer the natural state of man? Anarchy? Where everything is decided by violence?

    I wasn't aware that every country was Totalitarian. After all, they all engage in the Social Contract, and since you consider that to be the same as totalitarianism, logically it concludes you believe all countries are Totalitarian. Care to support this notion?
    I didn't sign any contract. But according to Hobbes, in order to have a "social contract", one must freely give up ALL of one's liberties and freedoms to a single ruler. That sounds like totalitarianism to me.

    That's pretty much all I know about it because quite frankly, I don't give a **** what Hobbes thought. What I do care about is the here and now.

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    Re: Would the rich miss 5%?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Those can be more efficiently run by the private sector. Things like defense, police and a judicial system require the government because they require equal enforcement of laws that we have put into place. The private sector cannot guarantee equal enforcement, therefore that must fall to an 'unbiased' third party - the government.
    So you are going to get the private sector to pay for all the roads, parks, health, education?

    And who do you think is going to pay for these things? The altruistic corporation?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Would the rich miss 5%?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    So you are going to get the private sector to pay for all the roads, parks, health, education?

    And who do you think is going to pay for these things? The altruistic corporation?
    If the people want those things, they will fund them. If they do not, then they must not find them important enough to fund and therefore unnecessary.

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    Re: Would the rich miss 5%?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    I didn't sign any contract. But according to Hobbes, in order to have a "social contract", one must freely give up ALL of one's liberties and freedoms to a single ruler. That sounds like totalitarianism to me.
    Uh No. According to Hobbes, man gives up certain freedoms in order for protection and to leave the natural state of man. Nowhere does Hobbes ever argue that man gives up all of his liberties and freedoms to a single ruler.

    What I do care about is the here and now.
    You appear not to have dug too deep.

    If the people want those things, they will fund them. If they do not, then they must not find them important enough to fund and therefore unnecessary.
    You do realize that you are calling for extreme inefficiencies within the market no? Imagine the cost of goods when every road is toll road. The way to hamstring the economy it to tack on high costs to individuals. As much as there is a free rider problem, communal goods like roads do increase GDP. Paying $5 in taxes a year for roads and reaping the benefits is far more efficient then toll roads up the butt.
    Last edited by obvious Child; 11-20-09 at 12:19 AM.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Would the rich miss 5%?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    If the people want those things, they will fund them. If they do not, then they must not find them important enough to fund and therefore unnecessary.
    How is funding them different than paying taxes. Either the private sector is going to pass on the costs to the consumer or the government is going to do it by taxes.

    The alternative is to say that it is based on income. Only rich people can use the roads because they will be toll based. Only rich people can be educated because only they can pay the education.

    Yeah....that is the making of a great society.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Would the rich miss 5%?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    So, taking from the 'haves' and giving to the 'have nots' doesn't work, eh?

    That is what you're advocating though.

    What will "fix" the healthcare system to get the ****ing government's nose out of it along with getting rid of health insurance altogether AND tort reform.

    None of the bull**** coming from our retards in govt right now are actually addressing the issue. All they are doing is essentially taking $20 from one person and giving it to another.

    Lastly, if I had more of my money to give my family, they wouldn't NEED any government assistance. But instead, my money is stolen from me by the thousands, making it impossible for me to give my family the support they need.

    What you and others like you seem to advocate is just that... take so much of our money away that our only choice is to rely on the government. And I say, **** that.
    thing is though the more money we have the more we tend to blow it on **** we don't need.

    most of my friends don't have health insurance and claim they can't afford it. but somehow they can afford sports cars and cocaine.

    also when your neighbor drives a BMW it forces you to get one as well. so its an endless rat race.

    now if the government took away an equal amount of money from your neighbor as well as you then you would both be driving a toyota but you wouldn't feel bad about it because everything is relative and relative to each other you would still be the same.

    on the other hand for that money the government could give you health insurance which you could have gotten yourself before but you wouldn't have because you were engaged in a competition with your neighbor for who has the most expensive rims on his car.

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    Re: Would the rich miss 5%?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    You never hear them complain about taxes on the middle class and the poor...but they sure do squawk when the rich are asked to pay.
    That's a joke. I would think many of us here are middle class, unless I am poor and just don't realize it. On second thought, maybe I'm rich and just don't realize it.
    Last edited by lizzie; 11-20-09 at 12:44 AM.

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