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Thread: Would the rich miss 5%?

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    Re: Would the rich miss 5%?

    Would the poor miss 5%?

    I mean that's, what, 20 cents? They don't need that, especially since American poor is wealthy compared to the poor of other countries.

    I hope all you lefties are thinking this class-warfare though long-term, because from the global perspective, America as a whole, all of us, even the bums on the street, are "the rich".

    I can see an African consulate in the UN "yeah, tax those greedy Americans, they don't need all that money anyway".
    Last edited by Jerry; 11-24-09 at 03:58 PM.

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    Re: Would the rich miss 5%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Would the poor miss 5%?

    I mean that's, what, 20 cents? They don't need that, especially since American poor is wealthy compared to the poor of other countries.

    I hope all you lefties are thinking this class-warfare though long-term, because from the global perspective, America as a whole, all of us, even the bums on the street, are "the rich".

    I can see an African consulate in the UN "yeah, tax those greedy Americans, they don't need all that money anyway".
    We already pay the most into the UN. So done and done. And when Buffett pays the same marginal tax rate as the rest of us, I'll begin to entertain your arguments. But that 20 cents to the poor is worth well more than 20 cents to the rich. The poor in general have much less disposable income, thus taxing them more cuts into their living money. Food, housing, utilities, etc.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  3. #173
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    Re: Would the rich miss 5%?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Tell me, with an extremely conservative (and exceedingly unrealistic) ROI of 1.5%, how much do you think that the average charge per toll per mile would be?

    Note this includes the design, land preparation, land acquisition costs, property taxes and a whole host of other costs including maintenance.

    Now redo the math with a far more realistic ROI of 5%.

    American shipping is totally ****ed under your proposition.
    Are you under the delusion that those costs aren't already paid by us? 10x over?

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    Re: Would the rich miss 5%?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    I think it's not anyone else's decision to make what someone should do with their money or whether or not they would "miss" it.
    Some will never get that it is not "ok" to take other peoples money no matter how you explain it.
    Thank you

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    Re: Would the rich miss 5%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    We already pay the most into the UN. So done and done. And when Buffett pays the same marginal tax rate as the rest of us, I'll begin to entertain your arguments. But that 20 cents to the poor is worth well more than 20 cents to the rich. The poor in general have much less disposable income, thus taxing them more cuts into their living money. Food, housing, utilities, etc.
    Only if you change your argument from 5% to an exact amount.

    5% is 5% is 5%.

    Besides, the rich have jobs to create and employees to pay. Hurting them is hurting yourself.

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    Re: Would the rich miss 5%?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Not really. Insurance companies take profits and invest them in shell companies or securities which keeps those profits off their net income line making it look like they aren't making as much as they really are. Granted, many industries do this as well. If you restate their net incomes by removing a big chunk of those investments from their balance sheet, they are making a sizable chunk of change.

    My problem with insurance isn't its profits. It's that they make money by denying service that customers have legally paid for.
    A whole lot of health insurance companies have gone under. A whole lot of HMO's have bit the dust. This is because they were too good to be true, and the profits weren't there.

    I haven't had any denials fortunately and I use my insurance a lot. Universal healthcare will have to deny, also. There's no way any system can pay for everything. At some point, the rich will probably still get the better care,

    Ever watch Benny Hill? You'll see a long line of people waiting to get medical care, and this lady will walk up with a fur coat and jewels, and go to the head of the line. That's how it goes with everything. Those that have it, get it.
    "It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens." Woody Allen.

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    Re: Would the rich miss 5%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Only if you change your argument from 5% to an exact amount.

    5% is 5% is 5%.

    Besides, the rich have jobs to create and employees to pay. Hurting them is hurting yourself.
    HAHAHA, yeah, making the uber rich pay the same percentage as the rest of us will hurt us. They're going to take it out by making their businesses less efficient and cut into their profit margins. Besides, it's not like we can't replace them. It's America, just because someone can do a job doesn't mean that there aren't others who can't do the same job.

    Plus, how much of my money goes to them? Just this last bailout, how much of our money was funneled to the rich. They're already hurting us. They get to act as irresponsibly as possible, take as much of our money as possible, and when they break the system the government will take our money and give it to them. Do they even have a down side? Hurting us....HA, already being done. Being assraped without the lube by the new aristocracy. No, the rich can pay the same marginal tax rate as the rest of us.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Would the rich miss 5%?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Are you under the delusion that those costs aren't already paid by us? 10x over?
    10x over? Hardly. You ignore how much of the design and land study is done by state workers who's compensation isn't anywhere near the necessary profit margins private firms require. Furthermore, road maintenance is done by state workers as well. Again, no 5% ROI required. The only real profit being generated is during actual construction by private firms. And because private firms know that they aren't responsible for maintenance or anything else long term that has levels of uncertainty, they can easily project what it will actually cost them and determine their profit margin. So no, we aren't paying these costs 10x over. And have you seen toll rates? No way that even covers basic costs at least in America. Japan is another story though.

    Now, if private firms were responsible for everything, there's a great amount of uncertainty in long term projections. When they have to maintain, repair and rebuild everything, the costs quickly explode. And unlike a state operation, they actually have to make money. So where it would cost us X amount in taxes to build and maintain, the private firm has to make X + 5% ROI annually. So tell me, how could we EVER pay 10x the costs when private firms have a 5% ROI that has to be met every year over state operations?

    You clearly have not thought this through. Mathematically your argument is impossible.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Would the rich miss 5%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marilyn Monroe View Post
    A whole lot of health insurance companies have gone under. A whole lot of HMO's have bit the dust. This is because they were too good to be true, and the profits weren't there.
    No one said every insurance firm was profitable. Furthermore, I'll bet a great many made bad investment decisions that ripped chunks of investment income they were depending on out of their incomes. Note that has nothing to do with their actual insurance business.

    But a simple look at the balance sheets will show sizable amounts of investments that are in no way related. That's where many of the profits are going. That and cookie jars. Know why Microsoft had something like $35 billion in "warranties?" Earning manipulation. Their stated profits are not true. When you study this stuff, you realize just how much you're being lied to by the corporate world.

    I haven't had any denials fortunately and I use my insurance a lot. Universal healthcare will have to deny, also. There's no way any system can pay for everything. At some point, the rich will probably still get the better care
    That's absolutely true. But denies do happen to many people.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Would the rich miss 5%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    And when Buffett pays the same marginal tax rate as the rest of us, I'll begin to entertain your arguments.
    Buffet is a rare case because he didn't make his money on any kind of career, but rather through investing; thus there are a lot of loopholes in the tax code he can take advantage of.

    But most rich people aren't in that situation (especially if you define everyone in the top 1% as "rich").

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