View Poll Results: Do you support single-payer health care?

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  • Yes

    50 45.87%
  • No

    53 48.62%
  • Maybe, if

    6 5.50%
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Thread: Do you support single-payer health care?

  1. #71
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    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Are we going to have to pay for Obamacare?
    If your talking about paying for the affordability tax credits provided for in the Bill passed by the House, only we rich folk will be taxed to pay for those.

  2. #72
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    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Whip Comes Down View Post
    If your talking about paying for the affordability tax credits provided for in the Bill passed by the House, only we rich folk will be taxed to pay for those.
    Till when 2016 when it will end up costing so much we will all be taxed for it.

  3. #73
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    molten_dragon's Avatar
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    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    This is old and tired.
    The clause you cite gives the power to tax.
    It does NOT grant the power to create programs that provide for the common defense or the general welfare -- the clauses found in the remainder of the section do this.

    If your interpretation of the clause is correct, then there would be no need for any of the other clauses found in the article, save the last.
    Clearly the list of programs further down in that clause is not exhaustive. We have lots of programs that exist to provide for the common defense and promote the general welfare of our people that aren't in that list.

    The air force isn't mentioned in that list, should we get rid of it too?

    The FAA isn't mentioned in that list either.

    Nor is the FCC.

    None of these things are in the constitution, because the things they regulate or relate to didn't exist when the constitution was written.

    And neither did health insurance.

    If you want to argue that government-run health insurance is a bad idea, then more power too you, and I look forward to the debate. But saying that we can't have it because the constitution doesn't allow it is a cheap cop-out and completely untrue.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  4. #74
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    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Clearly the list of programs further down in that clause is not exhaustive.
    Yes, it is. That's why they were specified in the Constitution.
    If your interpretation of the clause is correct, then there would be no need for any of the other clauses found in the article, save the last.

    We have lots of programs that exist to provide for the common defense and promote the general welfare of our people that aren't in that list.
    And?
    All this means is that Congress was not given the power to create them, and that their creation was extra-constitutional.

    The air force isn't mentioned in that list, should we get rid of it too?
    The USAF was originally part of the army, and was reorganized into it son wervice in 1947. I have argued that it should be re-absorbed back into the army.

    The FAA isn't mentioned in that list either.
    Nor is the FCC.
    Both are directly related to the interstate commerce clause.

    None of these things are in the constitution, because the things they regulate or relate to didn't exist when the constitution was written.
    Your argument here has been addressed, countered and mooted.

    And neither did health insurance.
    So?
    Regulation of health insurance is provided for in the interstae commerce clause; there is absolutely NO power granted to the federal government that allows it to PROVIDE health care.

    But saying that we can't have it because the constitution doesn't allow it is a cheap cop-out and completely untrue.
    It is only a cheap cop-out if you arent concerned about the government violating the constitution so it can do something that you thing is a 'good idea', and it is -completely- true.

    -The clause you cite gives the power to tax.
    -It does NOT grant the power to create programs that provide for the common defense or the general welfare -- the clauses found in the remainder of the section do this.
    -If your interpretation of the clause is correct, then there would be no need for any of the other clauses found in the article, save the last.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 11-18-09 at 03:06 PM.

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    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Till when 2016 when it will end up costing so much we will all be taxed for it.
    Show us the numbers, boo dog.

  6. #76
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    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goober
    If your interpretation of the clause is correct, then there would be no need for any of the other clauses found in the article, save the last.
    If the enumerated powers where intended as a limitation, they wouldn't have granted broad authority over the general welfare, bro.

  7. #77
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    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post

    It is only a cheap cop-out if you arent concerned about the government violating the constitution so it can do something that you thing is a 'good idea', and it is -completely- true.
    Military Keynesianism was not mentioned in the constitution, and yet the majority of right of center citizens support it to their deaths. Black or white arguments are so cliche.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  8. #78
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    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    All this means is that Congress was not given the power to create them, and that their creation was extra-constitutional.
    What qualifies you to fairly and objectively determine what the Constitution means?

  9. #79
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    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Whip Comes Down View Post
    If the enumerated powers where intended as a limitation, they wouldn't have granted broad authority over the general welfare, bro.
    Please -do- try to pay attention.

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    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Military Keynesianism was not mentioned in the constitution...
    The power to raise and support armies, and the power to tax in order to raise rvenue to do so, necessitates that there be a certain amount of spendining on the common defense, should those armies be raised and revenues collected to that end.

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