View Poll Results: Do you support single-payer health care?

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  • Yes

    50 45.87%
  • No

    53 48.62%
  • Maybe, if

    6 5.50%
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Thread: Do you support single-payer health care?

  1. #231
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    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    It's none of the government's business.
    This sort of response is fine for hermits and people of 500 to 2,000 years ago, but not today.
    People who are healthy should be very grateful for this, people who are not need the help of those strong and fortunate.
    We are humans, not animals; even some higher animals show more compassion that this(its none of the government business).
    Nor is it good to have health care as a for profit business. To profit from a man's misfortune is not right.
    So, I support single payer.
    I note that 55% of the responders do not..
    When all of the world's developed nations (except the USA) have socialized health care, this evidently means we are not a developed country, at least socially...

  2. #232
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    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    This sort of response is fine for hermits and people of 500 to 2,000 years ago, but not today.
    Why?

    People who are healthy should be very grateful for this, people who are not need the help of those strong and fortunate.
    You have every right to be as charitible as you want.
    Do not presume to make that choice for others.

    We are humans, not animals; even some higher animals show more compassion that this(its none of the government business).
    Compassion? That's a moral position.
    Since when is it OK for you to force your moraility on me, and when do I get to return the favor?

    Nor is it good to have health care as a for profit business. To profit from a man's misfortune is not right.
    Its no different that the for-profit business of food production.
    Does that need to go, too?

    So, I support single payer.
    Which is nothig more than you forcing your version of morality on othersn abd forcing people to pay for goods and services they did not receive.

    I'm going to send you the bill for my next set of tires, and I will have the government force you to pay it.

    When all of the world's developed nations (except the USA) have socialized health care, this evidently means we are not a developed country, at least socially...
    Yes -- our social(ist) betters in Europe are SO much more 'developed' than us

  3. #233
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    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Compassion? That's a moral position.
    Since when is it OK for you to force your moraility on me, and when do I get to return the favor?
    Isn't that the basic function of our government when you get right down to it? The creation and enforcement of a set of group-determined common morals?
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  4. #234
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    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Isn't that the basic function of our government when you get right down to it? The creation and enforcement of a set of group-determined common morals?
    Our system of government is based on protecting the rights of its people, not the enforcement of some version if morality.

    Once you agree that it OK for you to enforce your version of morality onto others, you then give up any credibile ability to argue against someone else doing the same to you

  5. #235
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    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Our system of government is based on protecting the rights of its people, not the enforcement of some version if morality.

    Once you agree that it OK for you to enforce your version of morality onto others, you then give up any credibile ability to argue against someone else doing the same to you
    Our 'rights' are the group morality I was talking about. After all, we're the ones who determined which 'rights' our government would protect. There are many civilizations both today and in the past who, because they lived by different moral codes, had a very different set of 'rights' than what we have now.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  6. #236
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    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    OpEdNews - Article: Single Payer Advocates Address Deep Flaws in Democratic Health Bill

    Single Payer Advocates Address Deep Flaws in Democratic Health Bill

    On the day before Thanksgiving, members of single payer advocacy organizations gathered for a press conference to voice strong concerns with a Democratic health bill that they feel fails to address the biggest problems with health care in America.

    Dr. Carol Paris and Dr. Margaret Flowers of Physicians for a National Health Program (PNHP), Kevin Zeese of Prosperity Agenda, and Russell Mokhiber of Single Payer Action were all present for the press conference in the National Press Club in Washington, D.C. at 10 am ET.

    All four were members of the Baucus Eight that were arrested for confronting senators anddisrupting a Senate hearingafter Sen. Max Baucus and other senators took single payer off the table.

    Dr. Paris said the Democratic bill makes the mistake of “keeping the biggest problem, which is the waste of the private insurance industry” a part of the health reform solution being proposed by Congress.

    According to Russell Mokhiber, “It's unfair to call this health reform. This is an insurance industry and pharmaceutical industry bailout.”

  7. #237
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    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Our 'rights' are the group morality I was talking about.
    Rights (at least here) are not a 'group morality'. They have nothing to do with a judgement of right and wrong, only a recognition of liberties that one is free to exercise based on a certain set of logical principles.

    Rights supersede what someone thinks is moral or immoral -- you may find it immoal to kill someone, but you have the right to do so, should your life be appropriately threatened.

    There are many civilizations both today and in the past who, because they lived by different moral codes, had a very different set of 'rights' than what we have now.
    Perhaps so, but that doesnt necessitate any relationship between 'rights' and a 'moral code' -- rights MIGHT be based on a moral code, but they do no HAVE to be.

    Once you argue that you can impose morality on others, it leaves the door open for them to do the same to you.

  8. #238
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    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Rights (at least here) are not a 'group morality'. They have nothing to do with a judgement of right and wrong, only a recognition of liberties that one is free to exercise based on a certain set of logical principles.

    Rights supersede what someone thinks is moral or immoral -- you may find it immoal to kill someone, but you have the right to do so, should your life be appropriately threatened.
    Rights have everything to do with right and wrong. The founding fathers thought it was wrong that they could be forced by the king to quarter soldiers in their homes, so they gave us the right to refuse to do so. When you really look into it, all of our laws and rights come from some idea of what is right and wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Once you argue that you can impose morality on others, it leaves the door open for them to do the same to you.
    They already do.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  9. #239
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    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Rights have everything to do with right and wrong. The founding fathers thought it was wrong that they could be forced by the king to quarter soldiers in their homes, so they gave us the right to refuse to do so. When you really look into it, all of our laws and rights come from some idea of what is right and wrong.
    You're repeating yourself.

    Your statement is incorrect:
    You have the right to life. Murder is illegal not because it is wrong, but because it violates that right to life. There's no moral component to that.

    They already do.
    Under the conditions I have otherwise described, yes.
    However, see above.

  10. #240
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    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    You're repeating yourself.
    You repeat yourself all the time, what's your point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Your statement is incorrect:
    You have the right to life. Murder is illegal not because it is wrong, but because it violates that right to life. There's no moral component to that.
    It must be nice to think that your opinions carry the weight of fact. The fact that we have a right to life rises from a set of group morals. Dig a little deeper Goobie.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Under the conditions I have otherwise described, yes.
    However, see above.
    Ah, okay, so it's okay to impose your morals on others in some situations, but not in others. Glad to see you're at least consistent.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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