View Poll Results: Do you support single-payer health care?

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  • Yes

    50 45.87%
  • No

    53 48.62%
  • Maybe, if

    6 5.50%
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Thread: Do you support single-payer health care?

  1. #211
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    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    The Constitution does not allow, for example, federal funding of public education....authorization for it not only cannot be found in the Constitution
    The Constitution grants Congress unlimited power over the general welfare. Public education advances the general welfare.

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    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    That such funding now occurs does not imply that it suddenly became constitutional to do so.
    It was really Constitutional from the time the Constitution was first adopted in 1788.

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    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Unlimited power over the general welfare is one of the specifically enumerated powers granted to Congress, hoss. "General Welfare" is an ambiguous term that could mean almost anything.
    Last edited by Whip Comes Down; 11-20-09 at 08:24 PM.

  4. #214
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    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Whip Comes Down View Post
    Unlimited power over the general welfare is one of the specifically enumerated powers granted to Congress, hoss. "General Welfare" is an ambiguous term that could mean almost anything.
    If Congress has the power to do almost anything, what need was there for a Constitution at all?

    What purpose does it serve if it doesn't limit government?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    No more so than your adherece to the idea that there -is- ambiguity.


    I see you did not comment on the purpose of the clarification. Do you agree or disagree?

    This has been explained to you. You may choose to ignore the explanation, but the explanation stands. If a contact gives you a list of powers/rights in a contract, and there is a statement in that contract that powers not listed are otherwise held, there's no way to argue that you have powers/rights not listed in the contract.


    Thank you.
    I believe it wa federalist 33. One of them in that area. I hav since closed the link. I apologize for not including it as a cite.


    The 'ambiguity' is based on Hamilton's comments.
    If his comments are inconsistent -- he argues one way and then the other -- then Hamilton's comments are useless; any argument based on them is unsound -- including the interpertation of the 'general welfare' clause.
    I'm bowing out at this point. We're starting to go in circles around the "is it ambiguous or not" point and it's clear that's not going to go anywhere since we seem to have fundamentally different views on the matter.

    I enjoyed the debate, and the chance to refine my own ideas on the subject.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    If Congress has the power to do almost anything, what need was there for a Constitution at all?
    To make it legal.

  7. #217
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    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    No, its not the governments job to provide me with health care. I have to get it myself.
    Jackboots always come in matched pairs, a left boot and a right boot.

  8. #218
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    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Most of what your average Americans consider necessary health care I consider health luxuries. I would probably consider 90%+ of all medical procedures that are preformed today as luxuries. People tend to look for the easiest and most convienent path and this includes ones health.

    Face it, we have become a society that has been led to believe we should feel perfect all the time and if we dont the medical community has our solution. We as Americans run to the doctors office for alot of things that are not life threatening but expect to be treated. I consider this a luxury. The medical communty also do there share to insure you feel dependent on them.

    Take a very common medical ailment in the US, Diabetes. Chances are if you are diabetic you purchase a whole slew of maintenance products including, test strips, meters, syringes, insulins, and will your entire life. Why do you do this? Because it enables you to have a broader range of foods that you enjoy and lets you be more reckless in your daily choices. Naturally we dont want to be limited if we dont have to be. But these things are not necessary once you know what you need to do and live with it. Exceptable blood glucose levels can be controled by diet and diet alone but for most this is to limiting and to inconvenient and so they choose to take the easy and more expensive path.

    Another prime example is our teeth. We constanty have them cleaned, filled, whitened, streightened. All of this comes down to luxuries. Instead of having teeth removed when they become flawed we spend money to constantly maintain them. Again it all comes down to our own convenience and enjoyment and not about actual life threatening issues. We could live a healthy life without teeth but who wants to if they dont have to? Again a health luxury and not a necessity.

    The list of is nearly endless. We have simply become reliant on medical care for things that we shouldnt need. We have come to expect more then what we probably should and argue because it is not enough or not everyone can recieve it all. We really are a messed up society.

  9. #219
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    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baralis View Post
    Take a very common medical ailment in the US, Diabetes. Chances are if you are diabetic you purchase a whole slew of maintenance products including, test strips, meters, syringes, insulins, and will your entire life. Why do you do this? Because it enables you to have a broader range of foods that you enjoy and lets you be more reckless in your daily choices. Naturally we dont want to be limited if we dont have to be. But these things are not necessary once you know what you need to do and live with it. Exceptable blood glucose levels can be controled by diet and diet alone but for most this is to limiting and to inconvenient and so they choose to take the easy and more expensive path.
    You don't have clue what you are talking about. A diabetics need of test strips, meters, syringes, insulins, and medications has nothing to do with allowing a broader range of foods. Even on the most low-carb diet, which is extremely hard to maintain, you still have a need to test your BG and inject insulin. To take your medication. These things are essential for both Type 1 and Type 2 diabetics to stay alive.

  10. #220
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    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    You don't have clue what you are talking about. A diabetics need of test strips, meters, syringes, insulins, and medications has nothing to do with allowing a broader range of foods. Even on the most low-carb diet, which is extremely hard to maintain, you still have a need to test your BG and inject insulin. To take your medication. These things are essential for both Type 1 and Type 2 diabetics to stay alive.
    Sorry to say I know what I am talking about. I have seen it first hand more then once.

    My long time girlfriend of 9 years has type 2 diabetes. She struggled with it for almost 15 years. She freqented the medical community and like you was told that she must constantly maintain her glucose with insulin injections. Finally being fed up with the routine she explored other avenues. After doing alot of research she heard from others that were insulin indepented and found that they could maintain glucose with diet alone. It took her many months of trial and error but she also achived an exceptable glucose level (around 130-150) with diet alone. It was not easy and probably not particulaly enjoyable. She was very limited on foods and had to eat very small and freqent meals.

    My father was diagnosed 3 years ago with diabetes. Again he was told he needed these things. I set out to help him avoid insulin because he was refusing to inject himself several times a day. We have been working on this for several months now and while we have not gotten it lowered consistanly below 150, this is mainly due to his wavering dedication and frequent straying. However most of the time he is under 200 even when he eats things he should not. I believe if he would stick to the things he should eat he could be sucessful just as my gf was.

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