View Poll Results: Do you support single-payer health care?

Voters
109. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    50 45.87%
  • No

    53 48.62%
  • Maybe, if

    6 5.50%
Page 15 of 26 FirstFirst ... 5131415161725 ... LastLast
Results 141 to 150 of 252

Thread: Do you support single-payer health care?

  1. #141
    I'm not-low all the time
    Kushinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Loop
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 01:09 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    16,254

    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Social security and medicare are un-constitutional?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  2. #142
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last Seen
    07-23-12 @ 03:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    6,763
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Its a sound argument, period.
    If you can get SCOTUS/Congress to agree. It looks like they are going to run with Hamilton's interpretation, though.

  3. #143
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    If you can get SCOTUS/Congress to agree. It looks like they are going to run with Hamilton's interpretation, though.
    This is an appeal to authority.

  4. #144
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last Seen
    07-23-12 @ 03:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    6,763
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    This is an appeal to authority.
    No it is ambiguous. SCOTUS has already weighed in on the side of Hamilton. If it wasn't ambiguous, they would have said that no other powers are given. That was the clause from the Articles of Confederation that they ripped out. Therefore, you are arguing an appeal to authority.

  5. #145
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    No it is ambiguous.
    You already admited that you cannot address my questions and my argument to that effect. As such, your argument that it is ambiguous is not sound.

    SCOTUS has already weighed in on the side of Hamilton. If it wasn't ambiguous, they would have said that no other powers are given.
    This doesn't mean anythng, as the court is certainly able to make decisions based on their own wants and goals rather than look at the merits of any particular argument. That's why its called an 'appeal to auhtority' and why its a logical fallacy.

  6. #146
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last Seen
    07-23-12 @ 03:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    6,763
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    You already admited that you cannot address my questions and my argument to that effect. As such, your argument that it is ambiguous is not sound.
    So is yours.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    This doesn't mean anythng, as the court is certainly able to make decisions based on their own wants and goals rather than look at the merits of any particular argument. That's why its called an 'appeal to auhtority' and why its a logical fallacy.
    The same is true for justices that decide in you direction. Since it is ambiguous in the Constitution, they have to interpret based on their own wants and goals.

  7. #147
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    So is yours.
    How so? I have suppoted all of my assertions, and I have brought up issues regarding your positions that you cannot/have not addressed.

    The same is true for justices that decide in you direction.
    Irrelevant to the point. All you're doing here is agreeing that the SCotUS decision in this regard does not show that the argument is sound.

    Since it is ambiguous in the Constitution...
    It isn't.

    they have to interpret based on their own wants and goals.
    This is exactly what theya re NOT supposed to do. The personal preferences of the justices are supposed to play NO role in their decisions.

  8. #148
    Anti-Hypocrite
    molten_dragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Southeast Michigan
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:56 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    9,351

    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    If you cannot answer it, you should question your support for the argument.
    I did answer it, as you can see below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    That you can do this in no way nullifies my point.
    That said, the reverse question is easily answered - it explains why congress was given the power to tax and spend; said preamble, gives no more power to the governmen than does the actual preamble to the Constituion.
    Then why include that explanation if it creates ambiguity in the document (and it does)? If it was truly intended that the listed powers are the only ones that congress has then shouldn't clarity of that point have been more important than a meaningless explanation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    They did.
    When something says you "shall have the power to..." and lists a number of powers, anything not found in that list is not a power you shall have.
    No, they didn't. It can be argued that the way that section is presented implies that those are the only powers held by congress, but that is not explicitly stated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    This is unsupportable, especially given the 'unlimited power thru the general welfare clause' argument. Under that argument, all of these powers are already included, as they all relate to the general welfare and/or common defense.
    It is no more unsupportable than the argument that the drafters of the constitution would have intended those 16 powers to be the only ones held by congress and not stated so explicitly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Hamilton was first among those that argued against the bill of rights, for the reason I supplied - that to specifically list certain rights would lead to the denial of those not listed.

    In that light, if he did indeed hold that the enumeratesd powers were not the only powers of Congress, where are his argument against the enumeration of powers itself, in that specifying certain powers in a section described as 'the powers of Congress' denotes that these were the only powers held by congress, and would then lead to the denial of those not listed?
    Who knows. Perhaps he did argue against it during the constitutional convention and was overruled. Perhaps that's the reason for the ambiguity; the members of the constitutional convention couldn't agree on how it should be, so they left it open to the interpretation of future generations.


    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    To be quite honest, the only people that see ambuguity are those that want the Federal Government to do something that they know it has not been given the power to do -- thus, the 'general welfare' argument.
    Your assumption that there is no ambiguity in the constitution is either hopelessly naive or simply ignorant.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  9. #149
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last Seen
    07-23-12 @ 03:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    6,763
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    How so? I have suppoted all of my assertions, and I have brought up issues regarding your positions that you cannot/have not addressed.
    You have repeatedly ignored my pointing out that the Articles of Confederation included a clause that made the enumerated powers all the powers given. This clause was removed for some reason from the Constitution.


    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Irrelevant to the point. All you're doing here is agreeing that the SCotUS decision in this regard does not show that the argument is sound.
    No, there are more than one way to interpret it. It is ambiguous. One SCOTUS may decide one way and a different SCOTUS may decide a different way. You are trying to have previous decisions overturned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    It isn't.
    It is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    This is exactly what theya re NOT supposed to do. The personal preferences of the justices are supposed to play NO role in their decisions.
    But they do. It is the whole strict constructionist vs loose constructionist litmus test. It is personal opinion.

  10. #150
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last Seen
    07-23-12 @ 03:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    6,763
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Do you support single-payer health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Your assumption that there is no ambiguity in the constitution is either hopelessly naive or simply ignorant.
    or willfully dishonest.

Page 15 of 26 FirstFirst ... 5131415161725 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •