View Poll Results: Do you agree with me

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Thread: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

  1. #81
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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    For the sake of avoiding another monopsony and/or further bailouts; private insurers cannot be forced to insure high risk applicants unless federally subsidized.
    High risk applicants will be included in a group rate and that rate may need to go up to cover the increased risk.

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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    As noted before, this is where your argument fails.
    We have a well-functioning society w/o your plan for heath care in place.
    Thus, there's no necessity.
    No we don't have a well-functioning society. There is a health necessity that is currently not being met. There is also a financial necessity that is not being met. People aren't covered and people can't pay for it.

    I agree that competition is the way to bring prices down.

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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    No we don't have a well-functioning society. There is a health necessity that is currently not being met. There is also a financial necessity that is not being met. People aren't covered and people can't pay for it.
    None of this supports the idea that we do not have a well-functioning society. You're trying to support your argument with circular reasoning.

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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    High risk applicants will be included in a group rate and that rate may need to go up to cover the increased risk.
    High risk applicants will have to pay more? Sounds very similar to the system currently in place (where the ER is used as a general physician). However, i cannot see where this will decrease the costs per say.

    Could you elaborate a bit?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    High risk applicants will have to pay more? Sounds very similar to the system currently in place (where the ER is used as a general physician). However, i cannot see where this will decrease the costs per say.

    Could you elaborate a bit?
    I didn't say a thing about reducing costs.

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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    None of this supports the idea that we do not have a well-functioning society. You're trying to support your argument with circular reasoning.
    Not at all. We have a healthcare crisis in this country with increasing costs and decreasing ability to pay those increased costs. This is especially true given the unemployment rate. All of this is resulting in more people getting sick and not getting proper treatment, which will cause more costs to be assessed in the future. We do not have a well-functioning society in this regard. There is a healthcare necessity. There is no circular reasoning being used.

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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I didn't say a thing about reducing costs.
    Then how is such a policy realistic/helpful? The major issue with the US health care system is the double digit cost increases year over year combined with general mediocre results. Better coverage and ever increasing costs only deals with the symptom, not the disease. Otherwise, such a policy is unsustainable in the medium and long run.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Not at all. We have a healthcare crisis in this country with increasing costs and decreasing ability to pay those increased costs. This is especially true given the unemployment rate. All of this is resulting in more people getting sick and not getting proper treatment, which will cause more costs to be assessed in the future. We do not have a well-functioning society in this regard. There is a healthcare necessity. There is no circular reasoning being used.

    Sigh.
    Here's the problem with your argument:
    We do not have a well-functioning society in this regard
    That society is not, according to you, "well-functioning in this regard" does not mean that it is not, as a whole well-functioning.

    Thus, you have failed to show necessity, especially one that rises to the level of education.

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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    Personally I agree.

    Let me elaborate. No where in the constitution does it give the right to force a product upon any American citizen.

    The 10th Ammendment says:
    Code:
    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
    Otherwise.. If the constitution doesnt say congress can do it, then it's not up to congress to decide they can. It's up to the states, and more importantly, the people.





    Also, the 24th Amendment:
    Code:
    1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.
    
    2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
    In layman's terms: You cannot make someone pay a tax to vote. -- Well, the health care bill makes you ineligible to vote if you do not pay for coverage, or the tax for not using the governments version (Ineligible because you are a felon).



    If I am wrong, please do tell me. I'll gladly admit to anything I've said that may have been misguided.



    For the first time in the 233 years of American history, we the people would be REQUIRED to purchase something and Personally i find it disgusting.

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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Then how is such a policy realistic/helpful? The major issue with the US health care system is the double digit cost increases year over year combined with general mediocre results. Better coverage and ever increasing costs only deals with the symptom, not the disease. Otherwise, such a policy is unsustainable in the medium and long run.
    Ok, I modified my list a little. I do agree that competition is important. That is the problem with single payer. Mind you my conclusions about what to do are in flux. I am not sure how to ensure complete coverage of everyone, since it is a necessity, and also have competition. My proposed solution is in bold:

    1. Necessity: Healthcare is a necessity for a well functioning society, designed along the lines of compulsory education.
    2. States Rights: Each state should implement their own healthcare coverage. Some will choose single payer. Others will have a regulated market.
    3. Coverage: Everyone is covered - no exclusion for pre-existing conditions.
    4. Affordability: No one should have to pay too much - put the high-cost patients in a large enough actuarial group to spread the cost.
    5. Choice: You can choose the doctors, specialists and drug companies you do business with.
    6. Competition: Protect the free enterprise nature of the industry - not so much the insurance companies, but the drug companies, hospitals, research labs, equipment/device companies.
    7. Funding: There is some federal tax dollars given to those states who implement compulsory healthcare. State taxes pay for the rest. One idea is to allot an amount to the insurance card carrier. That person will spend that money. If you need to exceed the amount alloted, your insurance rates will go up to a higher bracket which is also subsidized by state taxes.
    8. Medicaid and Medicare: These remain federal programs for those states that do not adopt compulsory healthcare. They become part of the state program for those states that do adopt compulsory healthcare. The federal funds will go to the state.

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