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Thread: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

  1. #71
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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    I see it more as a function to increase prices high enough that the consumers can't afford them on their own and are forced to utilize private insurance companies.
    This is only possible because third patries, like insurance companies, are able to pay those higher prices ans still make money. Eliminate third-party payers, and prices must go down.

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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    One of, if the the major contributors to health care inflation is due to either irresponsibility or general lack of coverage (crack slippage).

    On the surface it sounds just dandy. But mix a little social Darwinism with Murphy's law and what we have is a disaster waiting to happen. The American Journal of Medicine just recently released a study that concluded
    "Illness or medical bills contributed to 62.1% of all bankruptcies in 2007"
    What is even more interesting is the finding:
    Less than one quarter of debtors—whether medical or nonmedical— were uninsured when they filed for bankruptcy; an additional 7% had uninsured family members. Medically bankrupted families, however, had more often experienced a lapse in coverage during the 2 years before filing.
    So before jumping on the "make people responsible" bandwagon, we should consider if such a notion has real policy implications and what might they be.

    The article can be found here: http://www.pnhp.org/new_bankruptcy_s...uptcy-2009.pdf
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    I believe healthcare is a necessity. I have added it to my healthcare list. This is my proposal for healthcare

    1. Necessity: Healthcare is a necessity for a well functioning society, designed along the lines of compulsory education.
    2. States Rights: Each state should implement their own healthcare coverage. Some will choose single payer. Others will have a regulated market.
    3. Coverage: Everyone is covered - no exclusion for pre-existing conditions.
    4. Affordability: no one should have to pay too much - put the high-cost patients in a large enough actuarial group to spread the cost.
    5. Innovation: Protect the free enterprise nature of the industry - not so much the insurance companies, but the drug companies, hospitals, research labs, equipment/device companies.
    6. Funding: There is some federal tax dollars given to those states who implement compulsory healthcare and there are state taxes which pay for it.
    7. Medicaid and Medicare: Remain federal programs for those states that do not adopt compulsory healthcare, become part of the state program for those states that do adopt compulsory healthcare. The federal funds will go to the state.

  4. #74
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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I believe healthcare is a necessity. I have added it to my healthcare list. This is my proposal for healthcare

    1. Necessity: Healthcare is a necessity for a well functioning society, designed along the lines of compulsory education.
    2. States Rights: Each state should implement their own healthcare coverage. Some will choose single payer. Others will have a regulated market.
    3. Coverage: Everyone is covered - no exclusion for pre-existing conditions.
    4. Affordability: no one should have to pay too much - put the high-cost patients in a large enough actuarial group to spread the cost.
    5. Innovation: Protect the free enterprise nature of the industry - not so much the insurance companies, but the drug companies, hospitals, research labs, equipment/device companies.
    6. Funding: There is some federal tax dollars given to those states who implement compulsory healthcare and there are state taxes which pay for it.
    7. Medicaid and Medicare: Remain federal programs for those states that do not adopt compulsory healthcare, become part of the state program for those states that do adopt compulsory healthcare. The federal funds will go to the state.
    For the sake of avoiding another monopsony and/or further bailouts; private insurers cannot be forced to insure high risk applicants unless federally subsidized.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I believe healthcare is a necessity. I have added it to my healthcare list. This is my proposal for healthcare

    Necessity: Healthcare is a necessity for a well functioning society, designed along the lines of compulsory education.
    As noted before, this is where your argument fails.
    We have a well-functioning society w/o your plan for heath care in place.
    Thus, there's no necessity.

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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    This is only possible because third patries, like insurance companies, are able to pay those higher prices ans still make money. Eliminate third-party payers, and prices must go down.
    That's my point. Insurance companies exist now to increase prices so consumer are dependent on them, thus increasing their profits. Eliminate the insurance companies and prices drop where consumers can afford at least minor health care out of pocket.

    Insurance companies would still be needed for significant health care needs though (weeks or months in a hospital with multiple treatments).
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
    - Warren Buffett

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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    That's my point. Insurance companies exist now to increase prices so consumer are dependent on them, thus increasing their profits. Eliminate the insurance companies and prices drop where consumers can afford at least minor health care out of pocket.
    This was my point, exactly.

  8. #78
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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    That's my point. Insurance companies exist now to increase prices so consumer are dependent on them, thus increasing their profits.
    I disagree. Insurance companies exist because they can more efficiently hedge risk than your average family (via savings and healthy living). Every home dwelling being required to have smoke alarms does not prevent fires from happening. This is a clear indication that private insurance firms provide a service that is legitimately demanded by consumers.

    Eliminate the insurance companies and prices drop where consumers can afford at least minor health care out of pocket.
    Insurance was not created to be used as a means of continuous consumption. Minor care should not require insurance supplementation as a means of payment (a major flaw in our system). However; children being born with horrible pre-existing conditions (PEC's) is expensive. Given the actual demand for health care in a time of need, you can easily see why/how hospitals/doctors are able to pull in additional revenue from large payers such as the US government and major HMO's. But why? It is not as if the profit margins in hospitals is off the charts. There are severe cost constraints in such a field.

    Insurance companies would still be needed for significant health care needs though (weeks or months in a hospital with multiple treatments).
    Which is what they are intended to be used for. Insurance was created to hedge against risk.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  9. #79
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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    As noted before, this is where your argument fails.
    We have a well-functioning society w/o your plan for heath care in place.
    Thus, there's no necessity.
    Which parallel universe would that be? Not the one the rest of us inhabit.

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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Which parallel universe would that be? Not the one the rest of us inhabit.
    Keep thinking that.

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