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Thread: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

  1. #51
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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I disagree with any mandated health care position.

    If one does not want to have health care, they should be allowed to opt out. However, if they then get ill, under no circumstances should the government assist or subsidize their health expenses. They made a choice. They need to then take responsibility for that choice and manage their health care out of their own expenses.

    Also, doctors and hospitals should not be required to accept any "opt out" patients without ability to pay verification. IMO, this kind of thing will save the US more tax dollars than anything I've seen presented in health care reform.

    Do you agree with me?
    Why or why not?
    If there is mandated health care, simple math shows that eventually health insurance will become about as cheap as car insurance.
    Last edited by creativedreams; 11-17-09 at 11:14 PM.

  2. #52
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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Fortunately, it is provided through my employer and is not terribly expensive.
    Just curious - when you say it's not expensive, are you counting the portion paid by the employer or only the voluntary portion you elect to have deducted from your paycheck?

    For example, my last employer subsidized insurance plan cost me a little over $50/month. I think it was $57. That was single no children no wife, just me. If I assumed the insurance cost $57 (which effectively was my cost, since it was the only cost I could control) I would say it was not very expensive at all.

    The same insurance through cobra was over $500. So the employer was actually paying almost 90% of my insurance when I paid the small amount. The real cost of my insurance was over $500/month.

  3. #53
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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    My part is 80 dollars per month, but I don't take out the "premium" plan. I rarely go to a doctor, I don't take any medications (prescription or non-prescription), and I have to pay a higher deductible than the more expensive plan requires . This is for just myself. It's a pretty basic PPO plan, and I don't know what the company pays in total for it, but when I've checked around for private insurance plans with similar coverage, I would be paying 2-3 times that amount.

  4. #54
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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    A few things to be said here:
    1) I agree that health care should be a states rights issue. I believe this is the Whig party position - see my blog in my sig and link to the national party website (please visit, its a brand new blog! ).
    I will.

    2) Other than NCLB, aren't there federal statutes governing that providing education is mandatory for states, even though there is limited federal financing - majority local financing? There is a Dept of Education. What does it do?
    If there are such statutes I am not aware of them. If there are such statutes, they would clearly violate the 10th amendment as there is absolutely NO federal power to mandate such a thing to the states.

    Most Federal influence over education comes from the strings ttached to federal funding - if you want our $ you will do X.

    3) You are using the term 'necessity'. Is this a legal term that enforces that fact that a 12th grade education be provided to everyone. If not, what is the legal reason we have this?

    The legal reason we have compulsorary education is because the states provide it.

    4) To use your terms, I would argue that health care is not a luxury, not a right, but a necessity for a functioning society.
    Society functioned quite well w/ nothing other than basic pay-as-you go health care. Thus, health care, as we see discussed here, is NOT a necessity for a functioning society.

    It is an absolute embarrassment that we don't provide coverage to everyone. We don't lead the world in this regard and we should.
    Its not my responsibility to provide health care to anyone that I do not choose to provide for. If you want to make it YOUR responsibility to do so, then feel free, but do not presume to make that choice for everyone.

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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I disagree with any mandated health care position.

    If one does not want to have health care, they should be allowed to opt out. However, if they then get ill, under no circumstances should the government assist or subsidize their health expenses. They made a choice. They need to then take responsibility for that choice and manage their health care out of their own expenses.

    Also, doctors and hospitals should not be required to accept any "opt out" patients without ability to pay verification. IMO, this kind of thing will save the US more tax dollars than anything I've seen presented in health care reform.

    Do you agree with me?
    Why or why not?
    I agree in theory, but in practice it would never work.

  6. #56
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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    If there are such statutes I am not aware of them. If there are such statutes, they would clearly violate the 10th amendment as there is absolutely NO federal power to mandate such a thing to the states.

    Most Federal influence over education comes from the strings ttached to federal funding - if you want our $ you will do X.



    The legal reason we have compulsorary education is because the states provide it.
    Ahh, I see. All of the states have passed compulsory education. It is interesting that the federal government taxes and gives funds to the states for this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Society functioned quite well w/ nothing other than basic pay-as-you go health care. Thus, health care, as we see discussed here, is NOT a necessity for a functioning society.
    Well, this is a ridiculous, conservative viewpoint. Times change. What once cost $25 dollars now cost $2500. New medications, procedures and health care responses have evolved. Our understanding of the necessity of healthcare for a functioning state has evolved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Its not my responsibility to provide health care to anyone that I do not choose to provide for. If you want to make it YOUR responsibility to do so, then feel free, but do not presume to make that choice for everyone.
    I want to make it a necessity along the lines of a compulsory education. It should be done at the state level. There is federal tax dollars given to those states who implement compulsory healthcare. There are state taxes which pay for it. Different states can come up with different systems. If you are in a state that doesn't want to pay for it, that's fine, your federal tax dollars will go to states that do. So there!

  7. #57
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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Well, this is a ridiculous, conservative viewpoint.
    Ridiculing it does not negate it, and in fact, since we do not have 'health care' at present and society still functions, the point is proven.

    I want to make it a necessity along the lines of a compulsory education.
    You cannot, as you cannot -create- a condition where society cannot function w/o it.

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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Ridiculing it does not negate it, and in fact, since we do not have 'health care' at present and society still functions, the point is proven.


    You cannot, as you cannot -create- a condition where society cannot function w/o it.
    Society functions to a degree. Society would function better with compulsory healthcare.

    Without compulsory education, society would function to a degree. It functions better with it.

    Same situation.

  9. #59
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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Society functions to a degree. Society would function better with compulsory healthcare.
    That our society functons at all negates any argument that it is necessary.

    Without compulsory education, society would function to a degree. It functions better with it.
    OUR society would not. OUR society would collapse.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 11-18-09 at 12:44 PM.

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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Society functions to a degree. Society would function better with compulsory healthcare.
    How?

    The healthcare nazis would (you used to word compulsory, not me, live with the implications of what you demand):

    Close McDonald's, Burger King, Carl's Junior, Taco Bell, Kentucky Fried Chicken, Weinersnitchel, etc.

    Implement concentration camps for the fat boys.

    Replace cars with bicycles.

    Ban sugar.

    Eliminate white bread.

    etc etc etc.

    No, a free society doesn't suffer compulsory anything. It ceases to be free when the nazis come to town.

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