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Thread: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

  1. #11
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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by vvx View Post
    I don't think you can create a system that effectively allows the hospitals to refuse treatment. One scenario for example would be someone who is stabbed and mugged, rushed to a hospital unconscious in need of life saving treatment. Since the hospital can't ID and therefore can't determine whether ability to pay exists or not they could end up refusing treatment to someone with insurance. Short of implanting RFID in everyone and maintaining a national database (hello big brother!) you're going to either have to treat people who don't have insurance, or refuse treatment to people who do have insurance.
    I've got no problem whatsoever with hospitals providing emergency treatment for life-and-death cases regardless of the ability to pay. Most states have a low-cost hospitalization plan anyhow, stabilize the individual, see if they can pay, otherwise get them into the low-cost program. However, that should be restricted to actual life-and-death cases only. Someone walking into the Emergency Room with a cold and no way to pay ought to be turned away.
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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    No, I don't think there should be mandated health care coverage, only mandates on car insurance like it is currently, because you know, unlike health care coverage, car insurance coverage is extremely important.

    /sarcasm

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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    I don't agree with the OP for one simple reason. Pre-existing conditions. I have Diabetes, Bipolar Disorder and I smoke. I applied to 4 insurance companies when I was out of work and was rejected by all of them.

    I don't mind having tiers of medical support. Everyone gets emergency support. If you want the Cadillac of coverage, you can get it on the open market, but you cannot get turned away for pre-existing conditions. You also can't be placed in a high-use bracket and have to pay through the nose. You get placed in the same insurance group as everyone else and pay those rates.

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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I don't agree with the OP for one simple reason. Pre-existing conditions. I have Diabetes, Bipolar Disorder and I smoke. I applied to 4 insurance companies when I was out of work and was rejected by all of them.

    I don't mind having tiers of medical support. Everyone gets emergency support. If you want the Cadillac of coverage, you can get it on the open market, but you cannot get turned away for pre-existing conditions. You also can't be placed in a high-use bracket and have to pay through the nose. You get placed in the same insurance group as everyone else and pay those rates.
    As I understand it though, that's the whole reason for mandated coverage. If everyone has to buy insurance, then the insurance companies can afford to give old and/or sick people the same coverage for the same price as young, healthy people, because the young, healthy people pay them a lot more than they cost (on average). If you allow the young, healthy people to only get emergency coverage, but still require the private insurance companies to cover old and/or sick people at the same rate as everyone else, where will the money come from? It will just end up with everyone's rates going up for the private insurance plans, which will mean fewer people can afford them, which means the rates will have to go even higher to cover the old sick people at the same rate as everyone else. It becomes a nasty cycle.
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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    As I understand it though, that's the whole reason for mandated coverage. If everyone has to buy insurance, then the insurance companies can afford to give old and/or sick people the same coverage for the same price as young, healthy people, because the young, healthy people pay them a lot more than they cost (on average). If you allow the young, healthy people to only get emergency coverage, but still require the private insurance companies to cover old and/or sick people at the same rate as everyone else, where will the money come from? It will just end up with everyone's rates going up for the private insurance plans, which will mean fewer people can afford them, which means the rates will have to go even higher to cover the old sick people at the same rate as everyone else. It becomes a nasty cycle.
    Yeah, I thought of that too. I don't know the answer - I was intending to let market forces do their thing.

    If you have two insurance companies, A and B, and A starts getting a lot of sick people sign up that they can't turn away, A's prices will have to go up. B is cheaper, so a lot of healthy people in A switch to B, forcing A's prices to go even higher, soon everyone switches to B and B's prices will have to reflect that. The system evolves to one insurance company insuring everyone.

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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    No, because you haven't defined the "what" in your phrase "opt out".

    If you mean opt out of some Messiah Care scam, no, I disagree, because the scam shouldn't exist in the first place.

    If you mean chose not to buy private insurance (the only kind that's Constitutionally allowed), then sure, if some dumb**** chooses to skip health insurance, it's "his body, his choice", and if he gets some disgusting deadly disease, he can die without recieving a dime from the taxpayers.

    That's very fair, and very much the American way.

    And for the non-Americans that disagree that it's the American way, they have every freedom to "donate" (a word they don't understand) as much of "their own" money (that means not my money) as they want to help these people who either won't get coverage or are too useless to get a job that pays them enough to buy it for themselves.

    THAT'S the American way, people, people paying their own way.

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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    I am also inclined to think true emergency treatment should be available without proof of ability to pay.
    Fine.

    Then they're presented with what we Americans call a "bill" and they 're paychecks are taken until it's paid for, with a small allowance for food and shelter.

    They can live in the basement of the hospital, perhaps,

    Whatever, maybe instead you people can donate enough of your own money to make your dream a reality.

    If you weren't selfish, you would have done so already.

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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by vvx View Post
    Since the hospital can't ID and therefore can't determine whether ability to pay exists or not they could end up refusing treatment to someone with insurance. Short of implanting RFID in everyone and maintaining a national database (hello big brother!) you're going to either have to treat people who don't have insurance, or refuse treatment to people who do have insurance.

    Which leaves a mandate as the only equitable viable option.

    No, there's another.

    Don't let the patient go until the bill is paid or sufficient assurances that the bill will be paid are presented.

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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by gabehwkns View Post
    No, I don't think there should be mandated health care coverage, only mandates on car insurance like it is currently, because you know, unlike health care coverage, car insurance coverage is extremely important.

    /sarcasm
    Yes, car insurance coverage is extremely important.

    Cars have the potential to seriously injure and harm others, or their property.

    The insurance protects them, and the person choosing to exercise the privilege of owning and operating a motor vehicle agrees to abide by the laws that state he must carry a minimum amount of insurance to protect others.

    He can choose to not carry insurance by either putting up a cash bond or not buying the car.

    People who choose to not carry health insurance and get sick anyway are merely excercising their right to die early. Why should we deny people this basic human freedom?

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    Re: Do you agree w/ my position on mandated health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    No, there's another.

    Don't let the patient go until the bill is paid or sufficient assurances that the bill will be paid are presented.
    So we're going to turn our hospitals into prisons for those who can't pay their medical bills? Who's going to guard the 'prisoners'? Where will they be kept so they're not taking up room that could be going to people who need medical care? Who's going to pay the costs associated with detaining them there?

    I'm mostly agree with what you're saying (i.e. that there should be consequences for people who choose not to have health insurance), but the idea of forcing people to stay in the hospital until they can pay their bills doesn't seem well thought out to me.
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