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Thread: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

  1. #811
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    First of all, I'm agnostic...
    It appears that your ability to delude yourself is not limited to the issue of free will.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 12-09-09 at 03:17 PM.

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    It appears that your ability to delude yourself is not limited to the issue of free will.
    Both your points are dismissed by me, and you still won't answer the question.

    For future reference, you should never be the one to speak of someone else's lack of testicular fortitude, unless you want to be a hypocrite.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    Both your points are dismissed by me...
    This is just another exhibition of that willful self-delusion.

    You have done nothing to -counter- my points, and as such, your dismissal is nothing more than the pre-pubescent act sticking-of-fingers-in-ears-and-yelling 'I cant hear you".

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    If you're talking about a specific god, given the absence of evidence, fallacies in the proponent's logic and known history of the myth sure you can; as safely as one can state that Santa does not exist. But technically speaking, it is better to say "I do not believe in that god." Saying "god does not exist" presupposes that the god you're discussing, if there were a god, would be the god.

    When someone asks me if I "believe in god," before admitting my lack of belief in any god(s) I first pose the question, "To which god do you speak of?... No I don't."
    Why should we believe in his god instead of the hundreds of other gods we could pick. Sure God exists, as a metaphysical concept, the question is do you believe the cultists who claim to know its will.

    I'm reading this topic wondering if people are aware of the scholars who debate these topics, and do so far more eloquently than we ever could.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QyE78vBdeA"]YouTube- (4-7) Christopher Hitchens vs Frank Turek (Debate Nr.1)[/ame]

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    This is just another exhibition of that willful self-delusion.

    You have done nothing to -counter- my points, and as such, your dismissal is nothing more than the pre-pubescent act sticking-of-fingers-in-ears-and-yelling 'I cant hear you".
    You can't seem to concede the point, yet I'm the one who is delusional? lol

    You have failed to show me how free will is relevant, this needs no "countering". You have failed to show how the atheist must have the burden of proof, also needs no "countering". Your insistence on the atheist having the burden of proof demonstrates that either you are not interested in logical analysis or you simply do not understand logical analysis. This last part defeats the purpose of you asking for proof.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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    How can I have been, before I ever posted? Learn how chronology works...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    No, there isnt. "God does not exist" is a position that can be taken without regard to and independent from the position that "God does exist".
    Nonsense, how else would one know which god this person is claiming doesn't exist? Did anyone claim there was no Santa before he was thought up? Do you understand how a dismissal must chronologically follow a proposal?

    One must have regard for claim of a particular god's existence in order to dismiss the logical fallacies. You cannot divorce the two, I fail to understand your reasons for insisting so. No one is skeptical without reason, they're unconvinced by bad (fallacious) arguments. I fear its your own insecurities that are behind it, in that you cannot support your own delusion through evidence, or logic. And for the delusional to call the skeptic delusional, for lacking a belief based on false premises, is truly concerning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    The point is, that if you believe that -everything- is created by the laws of physics, you are then agreeing that there are no choices.
    Who believes that everything is created by the laws of physics? Everything like matter and space-time? Or EVERYTHING everything like including the taste of chicken? Because the latter is not scientific theory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Free will is actually deciding what you want to do, not deludung yourself into thinking that you have decided what you want to do.
    And just how can one be deluded into thinking they have made a choice when they have not, neurologically speaking? Which part of the brain has been found to perform that task?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I've never argued that God is necessary for free will.
    I've argued that if -everything- is/was created by the laws of physics, then everything that has/will happen is set in stone
    Well EVERYTHING isn't created by the laws of physics, so how can things pertaining to conscious beings be set in stone billions of years ago?

    and thus, there is no such things free will as ALL things have already been determined.
    Nonsense, the existence of conscious beings contradicts that. The logical law of non-contradiction demands that since conscious beings exist, you're claim about EVERYTHING being determined is false.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Thru an incomprehesibly immense and complex interaction of mass and energy
    If -everything- is/was created by the laws of physics, it means you did not choose your dinner as for you to do so it means you created someting.
    What? Created "something"? A thought you mean, you had a "thought", electrical signals fired in your synapses, then you made a choice. All of this is explained in the study of neurology. Where did you get the notion that everything was decided at the big bang? Which scientist do you attribute this theory to? Because its utter straw-man for the scientific consensus, and my position.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    You creating something is negated by the premise that -everything- was created by terh laws of physics.
    Who's premise is that? Not mine, nor is it big bang theory.

    Who says "everything was created by the laws of physics?" The laws of physics were set @ the big bang, not "created." The laws of physics don't "create" anything, they explain how matter behaves. You'll be hard pressed to find me a reputable physicist who refers to the physical laws as creations let alone creative, the same goes for our universe being a "creation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Both of these things are utterly and inexorably contrilled by the laws of physics, and as such, do nothing to negate the position.
    The laws of physics APPLY everywhere in the universe, but matter is not controlled by them. Just because we are held to this earth by gravity does not mean we are controlled by it, we can (through rockets) break free.

    There are lots of physical laws, they are not a creative force... you're misunderstanding what they are and how they work. Nothing was determined at the big bang regarding conscious beings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    This has all been addresed.
    No, no it hasn't; Unless you can quote to me where you answered the following question: Do you or do you not agree that we have free will? If there is free will and no logical argument can be made for any deity being the cause for the universe, do you not see the contradiction in your logic that everything was determined @ the big bang?

    I've asked you repeatedly, where do you get this tripe from? Who says that without a god, EVERYTHING was determined at the big bang? This is obviously contradicted by the facts and is a part of no valid theory I've heard of. As I stated, determinism is utter tripe.
    Last edited by Spartacus FPV; 12-09-09 at 04:05 PM.
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoop View Post
    Why should we believe in his god instead of the hundreds of other gods we could pick.
    That thought is what started my atheism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoop View Post
    Sure God exists, as a metaphysical concept, the question is do you believe the cultists who claim to know its will.
    Which god are you talking about? How are you sure it exists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoop View Post
    I'm reading this topic wondering if people are aware of the scholars who debate these topics, and do so far more eloquently than we ever could.
    I'm quite familiar with Hitchens, as well as Harris and Dennett. I've read their books and know their arguments intimately.
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

  8. #818
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    You can't seem to concede the point, yet I'm the one who is delusional?
    Yes, as further exhibited by the fact thay you think I hve something to concede.

    You have failed to show me how free will is relevant...
    This is a lie.

    You have failed to show how the atheist must have the burden of proof...
    This is also a lie.

    So, delusional -and- dishonest.

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Yes, as further exhibited by the fact thay you think I hve something to concede.


    This is a lie.


    This is also a lie.

    So, delusional -and- dishonest.
    Whatever makes you happy Goob. Thanks for the fun.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

  10. #820
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    You can prove how its a lie by quoting where you said so!

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Yes, as further exhibited by the fact thay you think I hve something to concede.

    This is a lie.

    This is also a lie.

    So, delusional -and- dishonest.
    Free will is irrelevant, considering you're arguing against the straw man that "EVERYTHING was determined @ the big bang." Or that the laws of physics "create" anything. BTW do you have ANY case to make for your unproven, baseless belief in a deity? Or are you just here to bash atheists?

    Rather than calling him a liar, why not quote your argument for the burden of proof being on the non-believer rather than he who is supposed to be making the case for their god? I'd love to hear it...
    Last edited by Spartacus FPV; 12-09-09 at 04:11 PM.
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

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