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Thread: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    If you asked, "is there a god?" There's only one way to go about answering that question. The claim that must be made for logical analysis to be possible is "God exists."
    Absolutely false -- the question can be addressed without any such assumption.

    Was it you that pointed out that some other poster lacked the testicular fortitude to answer a simple question?
    No need -- you proved my initial point quite well, thank you.

    No free will means no control, and no choice. It means you arent doing anything, you're simply reacting as the laws of nature would have you react. It means you didnt make anything, you didnt contribute anything, you didn't do anything of any meaning. It means that no matter what you do, it is because of something other than your will. And about a hundred other things.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 12-08-09 at 12:49 PM.

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Absolutely false -- the question can be addressed without any such assumption.
    Show me how you can address it then.
    If you use "God does not exist" to answer the question, you're not able to gather proof for that claim. The claim "God does not exist" therefore does not make any sense.

    No need -- you proved my initial point quite well, thank you.

    No free will means no control, and no choice. It means you arent doing anything, you're simply reacting as the laws of nature would have you react. It means you didnt make anything, you didnt contribute anything, you didn't do anything of any meaning. It means that no matter what you do, it is because of something other than your will. And about a hundred other things.
    But it's clear that I make my own choices for dinner every night. It's self evident. In fact, I make choices all the time. What you are trying to allude to is the illusion of having free will. However, free will and the illusion of free will have no significant difference.

    So whether it's authentic free will or the illusion of it, what the difference? Can you even tell the difference between authentic free will and the illusion of free will? If not, then why does it matter?
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    Show me how you can address it then.
    If you use "God does not exist" to answer the question, you're not able to gather proof for that claim. The claim "God does not exist" therefore does not make any sense.
    It makes complete sense.
    That you have taken an unsupportable position is -your- problem. Nothing in taking the position that there is no God in any way necessitates that anyone first even attempt to prove God.

    But it's clear that I make my own choices for dinner every night.
    It's self evident. In fact, I make choices all the time
    Not if --everythnig-- is created by the laws of physics, you don't.
    If --everything-- is created by the laws of physics, then you create NOTHING, including decisions on what you're doing for dinner or any other 'choice' you think you made. ALL of this was pre-determined at the moment of the big bang.

    So whether it's authentic free will or the illusion of it, what the difference?
    Real v not real? The difference is self-evident.

    Can you even tell the difference between authentic free will and the illusion of free will?
    Sure you can -- if everything was created by the laws of physics, then it is, necessarily, not 'authentic' free will.

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    It makes complete sense.
    That you have taken an unsupportable position is -your- problem. Nothing in taking the position that there is no God in any way necessitates that anyone first even attempt to prove God.
    In other words, you're not interested in logical analysis, you just want to see the other side fail...because that's all that matters, right?

    Even if the atheist makes such a ridiculous claim, it doesn't make yours correct. Just the same as someone who points out a mistake of someone's, doesn't make you any more correct.

    Not if --everythnig-- is created by the laws of physics, you don't.
    If --everything-- is created by the laws of physics, then you create NOTHING, including decisions on what you're doing for dinner or any other 'choice' you think you made. ALL of this was pre-determined at the moment of the big bang.
    Yes, yes. We know already, you're speaking about the illusion of free will. I've actually remembered our last couple of posts, you don't need to repeat it.

    Sure you can -- if everything was created by the laws of physics, then it is, necessarily, not 'authentic' free will.

    And how does that affect your life? Show me how it is self-evident.

    I can show you how I can choose my dinner. I can have pork chops or baked potatoes, or maybe even both tonight. Or, maybe I'll decide to eat out. Or, maybe I'm feeling lazy and I'll be content with instant noodles. THIS is self evident. I make my own choices.

    If there is no free will, and you think my choice in dinner is just the illusion of free will, how does it affect my life? If I had chosen pork chops, am I less happy with my fake choice? Will I be depressed, will I be disappointed, will I be unsatisfied? I don't think so. In the end, I still did whatever it is I chose to do, whether it's authentic free will or the illusion of free will.

    If the opposite is so self-evident to you, then show me.
    Last edited by Lightdemon; 12-09-09 at 01:24 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    In other words, you're not interested in logical analysis, you just want to see the other side fail...because that's all that matters, right?
    Your position here has nothing to do with logical analysis -- it has to do with you wanting to be able to make the statement that there is no God an then not have ti back it up.

    That statement is independent of any other. The entire burden of proof is on you, and no one else. Period,

    Even if the atheist makes such a ridiculous claim, it doesn't make yours correct
    -I- havent made a claim.

    Yes, yes. We know already, you're speaking about the illusion of free will. I've actually remembered our last couple of posts, you don't need to repeat it.
    So, you agree that if everything is created by the laws of physics, there is no free will, and everything that has and will happen, is set in stone. Fair enough.

    I can show you how I can choose my dinner. I can have pork chops or baked potatoes, or maybe even both tonight. Or, maybe I'll decide to eat out. Or, maybe I'm feeling lazy and I'll be content with instant noodles. THIS is self evident. I make my own choices.
    If you believe that everything was created by the laws of physics then no, you do not. These 'choices' were decided for you billions of years ago.
    You might THINK you're making those choices, but that doesnt mean you are -- and, in fact, those very thoughts were -also- set in stone billions of years ago.

    If there is no free will, and you think my choice in dinner is just the illusion of free will, how does it affect my life?
    Irrelevant. You are NOT making any choices, regardless of if you think otherwise.

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Your position here has nothing to do with logical analysis -- it has to do with you wanting to be able to make the statement that there is no God an then not have ti back it up.
    It is impossible to back up. You cannot gather evidence of nothing. What you are asking for is illogical. In other words, you're still not interested in logical analysis.

    That statement is independent of any other. The entire burden of proof is on you, and no one else. Period,

    -I- havent made a claim.
    But the claim must be made, otherwise logical analysis cannot follow.

    So, you agree that if everything is created by the laws of physics, there is no free will, and everything that has and will happen, is set in stone. Fair enough.
    Yes, and I was asking you what difference does it make. Which you have not answered. Perhaps you already know the answer, and you don't want to say it because it will prove my point. Winning is everything isn't it?

    Irrelevant. You are NOT making any choices, regardless of if you think otherwise.
    It is relevant. Whether I'm making choices or not, I'm still content with it. And if I'm content with it, what does it matter if I have free will or not? Will I be unhappy with my pork chops? Is my satisfaction with my pork chops even dependent upon free will? No, it isn't.

    So actually, you're point is the one that is irrelevant. If you think otherwise, show me how it's not. If you have the testicular fortitude to do it, that is.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

  7. #797
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    It is impossible to back up
    So, you admit you cannot support your claim that there is no God.
    Thanks.

    But the claim must be made, otherwise logical analysis cannot follow.
    No. It doesnt. Your claim exists, stands and falls on its own.

    Yes, and I was asking you what difference does it make.
    The difference between having free will and thinking you have free will even though you admit that you know you do not?
    Reality v self-delusion. Self-explanatory.

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    So, you admit you cannot support your claim that there is no God.
    Thanks.
    Haven't you been reading anything I posted? Of course that's what I've been saying. I've said it repeatedly.

    No. It doesnt. Your claim exists, stands and falls on its own.
    Again, what you ask for is illogical. You're not interested in logical analysis. So what's the point in asking for proof? You're being rather silly, like a child.

    The difference between having free will and thinking you have free will even though you admit that you know you do not?
    Reality v self-delusion. Self-explanatory.
    Yet, it makes no impact on your life. Why does it matter?
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    Haven't you been reading anything I posted? Of course that's what I've been saying. I've said it repeatedly.
    I -said- thank you for the admission.

    Again, what you ask for is illogical. You're not interested in logical analysis. So what's the point in asking for proof? You're being rather silly, like a child.
    Seems to me that when someone makes a statement, asking to back that statement up is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. An adult would reconize this.

    Yet, it makes no impact on your life. Why does it matter?
    That you're admittedly self-delusional?
    You're right -- it doesn't matter to -me- at all.
    Why doent it matter to you?

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Seems to me that when someone makes a statement, asking to back that statement up is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. An adult would reconize this.
    Yes, however the problem is when the adult does not recognize what he has been asking for is illogical, reverting back to a child's mental status.

    That you're admittedly self-delusional?
    You're right -- it doesn't matter to -me- at all.
    Why doent it matter to you?
    Just can't seem to answer the question, can you? You know what the answer is, you just can't bring yourself to say it.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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