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Thread: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

  1. #751
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    A zillion different ways.
    Starting out a conversatin with "There is no God" is one of them.
    But why would an atheist claim such, if the theist hasn't claim that God exist?

    That's the point -- its not.
    If -everything- is created by the laws of physics, then nothing is up to you, it is all set in stone. "Everything" would include your thoughts, your actions, etc. All of it is pre-ordained and unchangeable.
    You're thinking macro, I'm thinking micro.

    Clearly, the laws of physics does not decide what I'm going to have for dinner tonight. It's my choice. This would be micro.

    100 years from now, I'll be long dead. This is unchangeable and unavoidable. This is also macro.

    Just because I cannot avoid death, does not mean I do not have free will. Similarly, just because the ultimate end cannot be avoided, does not mean I do not have free will.
    Last edited by Lightdemon; 12-04-09 at 04:52 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

  2. #752
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    Cool Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Evidence of absence supports the notion of absence.

    E.G., if you claim you have a cat in your trunk and I open your trunk and there is no cat then that is definitive proof that no cat is visible in your trunk. If I search in your trunk and find no cat this supports the notion further that no cat is present in your trunk. If I then get heat sensors and sound detectors and still find no evidence of what manifestations a cat would leave in your trunk then this is yet further evidence for the absence of a cat in your trunk.

    If you now claim the cat is invisible, massless, heatless, and otherwise undetectable, then now all you've done is equivocate "cat" with this invisible, massless, heatless, and otherwise undetectabl being you claim is in your trunk.
    That's a nice rendition, but I thought we were talking about life on other planets not where the cat is or isn't on earth.
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    But why would an atheist claim such, if the theist hasn't claim that God exist?
    Beats me. But, it happens. It may be a response to a question, for isntance.

    You're thinking macro, I'm thinking micro.
    "Everything" encompasses both, including what you decide to do for dinner - your "chouce" for dinner was set in stone a the moment of the big bang.

    The only way you have free will where "everything" is created by the laws of physics is for you to be able bend the laws of physics to your will.

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    Cool Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    Here's the problem with this whole "absence of proof" thing. The onus is on the theist, not the atheist.

    If the theist says that god exists, proper support for this claim cannot be the lack of "proof of absence" because it shifts the onus onto the atheist. Which forces the atheist to prove that nothing is there. This makes the argument assume that God already exists, which is a circular argument.

    If the theist is the one making the claim, then the theist needs to use proper support for this claim, and not just to shift the onus onto the atheist.
    There is of course the other part of the tread "life on other planets", break the "absence of proof" down on that.

    Of course you can forget about the theist or the atheist cause both sides some beleive there could be life on other planets myself included.
    However the proof part may be a bit tricky.
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  5. #755
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Beats me. But, it happens. It may be a response to a question, for isntance.
    It doesn't make sense. No one claims that there is no God, it's what you have to assume. You should always assume there is nothing because it is easiest to disprove. All you have to do is show that there is something and you're done.

    If it was the other way around, you would have to prove that nothing is there, but you're not able to gather any evidence if the statement happens to be true. If nothing is there, how can you possibly gather evidence for such a claim? You can't gather evidence of nothing.

    That is why "God does not exist" is not just a simple claim, it's a counter claim. This claim only exists because of the claim that "God exists." If no one claims that "God exists" there wouldn't be a counter claim. Hence the onus always being on the theist, and not the atheist.

    "Everything" encompasses both, including what you decide to do for dinner - your "chouce" for dinner was set in stone a the moment of the big bang.

    The only way you have free will where "everything" is created by the laws of physics is for you to be able bend the laws of physics to your will.
    But clearly, the laws of physics does not decide what my dinner will be. I decide that. Or do you disagree?
    Last edited by Lightdemon; 12-04-09 at 05:14 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    It doesn't make sense.
    Sure it does.

    Me: is there a God?
    You: There is no God

    You have made a claim that there is no God; it is then up to you to prove it.

    But clearly, the laws of physics does not decide what my dinner will be.
    They do, if --everything-- is created by the laws of physics. What you hve for dinner, tonight an every night, is set in stone.

    I decide that. Or do you disagree?
    I see that you, too, do not fully comprehend all of the implications of --everything-- being created by the laws of physics.

    You decide nothing, as such a condition precludes free will.

  7. #757
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Sure it does.

    Me: is there a God?
    You: There is no God

    You have made a claim that there is no God; it is then up to you to prove it.
    But my claim only exists as a counter claim to yours. If you haven't made such a claim, I wouldnt' have made the counter claim. If you haven't made such a claim, both you and I would be content, because then we would both be assuming nothing.

    They do, if --everything-- is created by the laws of physics. What you hve for dinner, tonight an every night, is set in stone.

    I see that you, too, do not fully comprehend all of the implications of --everything-- being created by the laws of physics.

    You decide nothing, as such a condition precludes free will.
    Okay, let's say I go along with that. So what? What's the big deal?
    Would I not be content or something? Do you think that would mean that life is meaningless?
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    But my claim only exists as a counter claim to yours.
    You see no claim of mine. There is only yours, and it exists on its own.

    Okay, let's say I go along with that. So what? What's the big deal?
    Whats the big deal on having no free will?
    In that everything you do was set in stone ~14 billion years ago?

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    You see no claim of mine. There is only yours, and it exists on its own.
    Uh....your claim is right here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>Me: is there a God?<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
    You: There is no God
    Whats the big deal on having no free will?
    In that everything you do was set in stone ~14 billion years ago?
    So what? What's the implications of not having free will?
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    "Supports the notion of absence" is not -proof- of absence.
    "Proofs" are only applicable to math, logic, and alcohol.

    Unless you are claiming a proof within one of those realms then "proof of absence" is non-sensical.

    You are either making a non-sensical statement (the statement's syntax is correct but is semantically invalid) or you are equivocating with the word "proof".
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

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